Can we make aliyah?

amother

Cerise

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 11:55 pm

Israeli_C wrote:

IMHO it's a luxury. It's certainly not bread, eggs, flour or butter. If it was a staple food it'd be subsidised by the government.

There are foods on the price controlled list that aren't necessities- sour cream and white bread (which is less healthy than whole wheat).

Also, vegetables aren't on the list, or chicken- are you saying you don't eat either of those?

I'm going to echo the mother above- Just because it's not part of your diet doesn't make it a frivolous food.

Israeli_C

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 1:02 am

amother wrote:

The subsidised food list isn't a matter of health - it's a matter of making pantry staples affordable to everyone. They're hardly going to start subsidising lechem shifon and all kinds of fancy things. This is about having cheap basics.

Vegetables and chicken not being on the list is rather obvious. Fruits and veggies's prices aren't fixed - they're seasonal and their cost varies throughout the year. Chicken, meat and fish are not staples - they're also luxuries.

Somehow I don't think OP is looking for information on peanut butter, so I'm leaving it at this.

moonstone

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 2:07 am

amother wrote:

Oh for heavens sake, stop piling on israel_c about peanut butter. She said she didn't grow up eating it, so FOR HER it's a frivolous food, not a pantry staple. Lighten up, people, and get back to the actual topic of this thread. Very Happy

2gether

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 2:52 am

If you continue talking that why about staples like pb and cookies OP will never want to make Aliyah... and if you don't buy pb you're going to buy something else to put on your bread, and plain cookies aren't expensive at all - And I live simply.

Next, maybe some can wing it w/o an Ulpan, but if you have the oppurtunity to, than its very important. I have so much pity on people who make Aliyah and don't knew Hebrew. They have a hard time integrating, communicating and finding a job. Then later in life there isn't always the time to to stop the music and go to Ulpan.

Last edited by 2gether on Tue, Apr 02 2019, 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total

SacN

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 3:08 am

Quote:

Next, maybe some can wing it w/o an Ulpan, but if you have the oppurtunity to, than its very important. I have so much pity on people who make Aliyah and don't knew Hebrew. They have a hard time integrating, communicating and finding a job.

I was home with a toddler and a baby after we made aliyah. No money for babysitting for ulpan +no convenient ulpan in my city.

I had no Hebrew--not even day school Hebrew as I didn't grow up frum.
I live in an Israeli neighborhood and spent a lot of time in the park with other moms.
Today, 5 years later, I work in a large Israeli company, have Israeli friends and speak conversational Hebrew very comfortably.

My reading is poor, and my grammar could use a little work, but I help my kids with their homework and chat with doctors, cashiers, bank employees, coworkers, in Hebrew.

So, this is not necessarily true. It depends how good the ulpan is and how much immersion you have with Israelis in your private life.

Rappel

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 3:37 am

SacN wrote:

Quote:

I completely agree. I didn't make Aliyah with Hebrew either, and I didn't do ulpan. Immersion and commitment taught me. Today, I live in an almost completely Israeli environment, and it feels perfectly natural.

2gether

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 4:44 am

Some people manage beautifully w/o Ulpan and just pick up the language.
But I know many people that have been living here 15, 20, 30 yrs. and still barely know Hebrew. They can't apply to most jobs, have a hard time communicating with teachers, always live like an immigrant, etc. and it's a real shame. If you are planning to live here long-term than invest in the most basic thing you will need.

Israeli_C

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 5:08 am

To be honest, I've never met anyone in all my years living in Israel who didn't know Hebrew because they didn't go to ulpan. Some people enjoy the 'social scene' of studying in ulpan, but anyone I know who speaks Hebrew well did NOT get fluent from attending ulpan. People who still don't speak Hebrew well after decades living in Israel usually fall under one or all of the following;
A) Made aliyah at an advanced age
B) Grew up in a culture where learning other languages wasn't important. I've never met a European who didn't speak Hebrew after a few years living in Israel. Ever.
C) Are living in a bubble of their native language

2gether

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 5:19 am

Israeli_C wrote:

I unfortunately know many Americans (are Europeans so different?) that moved here in their early 20s or 30s, (not only living in bubble communities) who are genuinely struggling with Hebrew. They have a very hard time finding a job and are never at ease to just have a conversation with an Israeli.

Rappel

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 5:52 am

2gether wrote:

I think the difference is how much people are willing to commit to learning Hebrew, and dive in.

It's humiliating to break your teeth when no one understands you, and you don't understand them. It's ridiculous to fail to get things done in a language you don't know yet, when you might just as easily communicate in one that you do. It's a relief to hear someone speak your mother tongue, and to feel like a human being again.

But if you're willing to go through all that frustration, then you will acquire Hebrew. And if you're not, then you won't.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 6:12 am

People learn languages differently. There's no reason why you can't go to ulpan AND do immersion.

What's frustrating is when you're trying to use your Hebrew as much as possible, and as soon as they hear your Ango accent, they start speaking to you in English! Most native Israelis love it when they have someone they can practice their English with. I can't help but think that I should be charging them for the service. LOL

I will say this over and over again. If I could change ONE thing about my Aliyah experience, it would be that DD and I started learning Hebrew at least a year before we moved. Thinking we'd pick it up when we got here was a huge mistake, especially for DD.

If you have older children, do not believe the schools when they tell you that they will teach your kids Hebrew. It will vary from year to year, depending on the school's budget, how many new olim are in the class, and whether or not their only Hebrew teacher is on maternity leave (They will not get a replacement.) If there is only one Anglo child, she'll be lucky if she gets one hour a week of Hebrew. In the meantime, the school will expect her to keep up with teachers who speak a mile a minute. Your child will also be extremely lonely.

BTDT. DD is finishing high school back in America, because she nearly had a nervous breakdown.

notshanarishona

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 8:28 am

A lot of people look at making aliyah as a permanent thing, it doesn't have to be. Make aliyah if you are planning to try and make it work and if it doesn't work you can always move back to USA/England , etc. I made aliyah and after 8 years for various reasons we left . It didn't hurt me in any way, it just helped me get benefits while I was there.

Israeli_C

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 8:49 am

2gether wrote:

I unfortunately know many Americans (are Europeans so different?) that moved here in their early 20s or 30s, (not only living in bubble communities) who are genuinely struggling with Hebrew.

Yes, Europeans are very different.

I started learning a second language (Irish) at 5 years old and a 3rd (German) and 4th (French) at 13 years old. In university I studied a 5th (Russian) and 6th (Arabic - Levantine) and then I came to Israel and learned Hebrew.

Anyone I know struggling with Hebrew is either Russian or American.

Israeli_C

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:12 am

Iymnok wrote:

I have a friend who is American with Russian parents. She hardly spoke Hebrew in the years she as here since she was usually able to get by well on those two languages.

Yep, DH is Russian and his parents have terrible Hebrew even after almost 30 years living in Israel. A lot of it comes from feelings of being superior to native Israelis who they (talking specifically about DH's family, although it's a very widespread belief among the '90s wave' of Russians) feel that native Israelis are uncultured and lack education.
Blegh. Inlaws...

SacN

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 3:05 pm

Quote:

Yes! Op, make aliyah and at some point if you want to leave, just like any other Israeli, you'll leave. Intend to make it work and then see what happens.

As to the language debate--it was really hard for the first two years. I was really dependent on other people and very embarrassed to speak Hebrew in unknown situations. I'm American and language doesn't come easily to me.

But after 5 years, it's fine. Not wonderful; I'll never write a book in Hebrew. It's all about how much immersion you are forced to adapt to.

SacN

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 3:08 pm

Quote:

Yep, DH is Russian and his parents have terrible Hebrew even after almost 30 years living in Israel.

I had an older Russian neighbor who couldn't even say 'I don't speak Hebrew' in Hebrew. She pointed at herself and said Russia. Zehu.

But the Misrad haklita workers spoke Russian (and not English) when I moved here, so I'm sure she was fine on her own.