Can we make aliyah?

Israeli_C

Tue, Apr 02 2019, 11:59 pm

Iymnok wrote:

That’s cute, I grew up with the understanding that in general, the Soviet education was not that great. So interesting to hear their views.

It's not so much that their education system is 'better', but Russians are obsessed with investing everything into their kid (which is why they usually only had one), putting huge academic pressure on them from an early age, teaching instrument(s) and basically anyone without extensive knowledge of Russian literature, ballet, theater, classical music etc is seen as uncultured and ignorant in their view.

My MIL tried bringing my 2 year old son to the ballet recently.... that so did not fly with me (Chassidish...!!)

DrMom

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 12:58 am

Israeli_C wrote:

I actually appreciate the Russian emphasis on education and culture. Most symphonies and orchestras in Israel are highly populated by Russian musicians, and many Israeli high tech companies (the main economic growth engine of this country) and universities owe much of their success to the contribution of Russian engineers, mathematicians, and physicists.

All the teachers in my son's advanced math classes are Russian, and Russian parents at our local schools are always pushing for better academics, more rigorous standards, etc.

They have been a huge benefit to the country.

Israeli_C

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:27 am

DrMom wrote:

I actually appreciate the Russian emphasis on education and culture. Most symphonies and orchestras in Israel are highly populated by Russian musicians, and many Israeli high tech companies and universities owe much of their success to the contribution of Russian engineers, mathematicians, and physicists.

They have been a huge benefit to the country.

Tbh I've seen too much of the flipside to see the good anymore. My MIL is not Jewish (like many others who made aliyah from the USSR during the 90s) and is openly anti-semitic. My DH got the full brunt of the Russian drive for academic success - the plays a musical instrument, graduated with distinction from university, got to a high rank in the army and now works in hi-tech. But he suffered terribly - lack of love, non-stop criticism (which rubbed off on him and now I suffer unfortunately) and having to deal with a mother who ran for many years a very non-tznius business involving Russian women (I won't say anymore due to legalities...) and who was an alcoholic and a father who was arrested for domestic violence. His parents divorced, like the parents of literally all of his Russian friends (he literally couldn't tell me one friend whose parents were still together) and he bears terrible scars. Looking back, his mother's father was in a gulag and his father underwent some kind of abuse in the Soviet army, and it's done damage for generations.

Russians certainly contributed a lot academically, but as someone who has worked in an organisation dealing with conversion in Israel today and who sees a constant stream of Russians, I can tell you that they've done a hell of a lot of damage to this country spiritually.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 1:36 am

SacN wrote:

Quote:

Yep, DH is Russian and his parents have terrible Hebrew even after almost 30 years living in Israel.

I had an older Russian neighbor who couldn't even say 'I don't speak Hebrew' in Hebrew. She pointed at herself and said Russia. Zehu.

But the Misrad haklita workers spoke Russian (and not English) when I moved here, so I'm sure she was fine on her own.

I would have recommended to your neighbor to at least say "Russian" when pointing to herself and not רשע.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 2:00 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Yes, Europeans are very different.

I started learning a second language (Irish) at 5 years old and a 3rd (German) and 4th (French) at 13 years old. In university I studied a 5th (Russian) and 6th (Arabic - Levantine) and then I came to Israel and learned Hebrew.

Anyone I know struggling with Hebrew is either Russian or American.

Please dont overly generalize about who struggles to learn hebrew. I know quiet a few british folks who just cant get it together. And I have a friend from south africa whocame when she was about 24 and has been here for over 20 years and her hebrew is just non existent. There is no one way for people. And I davka know many russians who learn hebrew very well and right away.
So, lets not generalize about a whole group of people. It is really a personal thing and how people learn (or dont)

Mayflower

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 2:21 am

notshanarishona wrote:

A lot of people look at making aliyah as a permanent thing, it doesn't have to be. Make aliyah if you are planning to try and make it work and if it doesn't work you can always move back to USA/England , etc. I made aliyah and after 8 years for various reasons we left . It didn't hurt me in any way, it just helped me get benefits while I was there.

I always thought that if you make aliyah and receive benefits, you will have to pay back whatever you got if you leave within X years. Is that not the case?

DrMom

Wed, Apr 03 2019, 2:28 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

True, to a point. True to a point. But if you live among a critical mass of people who speak your native tongue, the incentive to learn Hebrew is greatly reduced.

I know many Anglos in Jerusalem who have terrible Hebrew, because you can get by quite easily without it there (especially if you don't work outside the home). Ditto for Russians who emigrate to Ashdod or Bat Yam.

Similarly, a Mexican immigrant in LA has feels less pressure to learn English than a Mexican immigrant living in Kansas City.

amother

Rose

Thu, Apr 04 2019, 4:08 pm

Wow, thank you all of you for giving of your time to share your perspective.
I appreciate the food for thought you brought up (excuse the pun Wink

) and the chizuk as well...
We have made the leap, and we have applied to make aliyah!!! I'm so excited Very Happy

I am a bit worried about learning Hebrew because I understand that immersion is important but I plan to live in a fairly Anglo community so I can feel comfortable here and make friends easily.

So now that we are very soon to be Israeli citizens, I have two more questions:

1. Some of you mentioned that you write articles etc in the evenings, very part time. How do I get such a job?

2. Where in Israel should we live? Any ideas where we would fit in?
We are yeshivish. In Israel, we are most similar in hashkafa to the Chareidi population.
We would love to live near Jerusalem, but if we found a community that was really perfect for us, we would reconsider that and see it as worth a longer commute for my husband (seeing as he is most likely to find a job in a yeshiva in Jerusalem).
We currently live in Har Nof and we love it here. We love the diversity of people (in terms of the age groups, types of hashkafah etc) and the Anglo-Israeli mix.
I'm nervous about moving to a community that is mostly American. I tend to gravitate to the fellow Brits and South Africans here and I do find myself and Americans to be very different. I know that limiting myself to a communities that contain Brits is very narrow minded, but a social support system is crucial as I have no family here. But maybe if there were only Americans I would get used to the differences?
We have been told by NBN that the following communities could work for us:
- Nevey Yaakov
- Kiryat Sefer (my husband thinks this is too chareidi for us)
- Beitar
- RBS - I am not knowledgeable about the different areas within (my thoughts on this: it seems the obvious place for us to go, but the people I know that live there, that are in my social crowd, live on a higher standard than us. One of the reasons we dislike England is the materialism, and it is a value for us to live in a place where there is no 'keeping up with Jones' factor. (We feel there much financial diversity in Har Nof). Another worry here is integration. I want my children to fully integrate. Is RBS too much of an Anglo bubble for this?)
- Givat Zeev
- Maaleh Amot
- Rechasim

I know very little about these places and it's all very overwhelming for me, but we would like to buy something soon and so I would like to spend some time in whichever of these places you think is suitable for us.
Any thoughts?

Rappel

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 4:05 am

Congratulations! I love Har Nof Smile

I went to Midreshet Tehillah for seminary, and I still have fond connections to the area.

In Sum:

-Your statement that you consider yourself on the lower financial end of Har Nof tells me that money isn't a factor if you buy anywhere else (Har Nof is $$$$$$$$).

-Everywhere you listed is a city, not a yishuv, so the strong community you need would be built around your shul/apartment building, rather than general community activities.

-----
I've been to Kiryat Sefer, Betar Illit A and B, Neve Yaakov, and Givat Zeev.

My general impressions:
Kiryat Sefer: old school haredi
Betar Illit: haredim whom want houses and gardens, many Anglos sprinkled in.
Neve Yaakov: simple haredi, many Anglos hidden in an overall Israeli society.
Givat Zeev: Nice Place to Live, broad mix of Israelis and Anglos

Other locations you might consider, in a similar bent: Kochav Yaakov, Psagot, Emanuel (farther from Yerushalayim).

-------

Unfortunately, because of the high value set on conformity in haredi society, I haven't yet found a haredi community which doesn't, as a rule, focus on "keeping up with the Joneses."
If that's the community you want to be a part of, though, then you're not obligated to follow the trend. You do you, and I'm sure other like-minded people will find you in the crowd.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Apr 10 2019, 4:17 am

Rappel wrote:

Congratulations! I love Har Nof Smile

Psagot is not a charedi community, it is a dati leumi yishuv nearish to kochav yaackov.