Please help me with the bickering, its out of control

amother

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:03 pm

Ok I hear you all about the recording.

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next, why are they arguing all the time? whats bothering them?? are they jeakous of each other? (if yes, why, is one getting much more attention then the other??) are they going through a hard time and reacting to it?

why? my son thinks he is funny when he says ridiculous things to my daughter, who in turn takes him too seriously and starts screaming at him "thats not true" and he thinks that's funny, keeps it up till it escalates to a big fight and someone hurts the other and the other hurts back.
he may be jeolose, she is the 'baby', and he is the only boy in the family.
He is an angel, perfect student at school and maybe wants to loosen up at home, who knows.

mimivan

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:05 pm

You know what...I retract that piece of advice about recording them...just because it "worked" for us it only worked for a while and it was degrading in the long-term.

I agree now with Happymom and Mah Pitom. Try to get to the root of the problem. While the strong medicine worked, there were side effects in our family (I.e. trust issues, "sneaking" etc..) While it may "do the trick" for a short while, it isn't worth it...

I'm not editing my first post, because the discussion won't make sense to someone reading it later on.

tzipp

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:13 pm

My advice-
end the situation first- separating the kids, taking one out of the room, time out, take away what ever they are fighting over, whatever ends it, and once everyone calms down help them talk to each other- prompt them to say what they need to express their feelings but make sure they say it to each other. Compliment them when they begin to use their new communication skills by themselves.

Know that your sanity is most important and that ending the situation is good for you and them.

happymom

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:15 pm

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oh and I forgot to answer, yes I do have a problem keeping calm when I get upset, partially due to the hormones

ok, so u know sometimes we have to understand how our actions affect our kids.

its TOTALLY understandable about your hormones making u react!! I think we can all relate..... but, realize how this prob makes ure kids feel. they prob feel edgy, and upset, and then let it out on each other, because they cant yell at you, cuz ure the MOTHER and then theyll get punished, also kids have a hard time verbalizing exactly how they feel so they act out.

when I am in a bad mood, and my daughter acts up, I try and realize that its ME and NOT her. I try and go to my room or something and ask my husband to take over (if hes around) sometimes ill do something else to help the mood, like dance to the music with her, whatever it is..... but at the end of the day, kids learn from us how to act, so the best thing we can do is try hard to be a good example, and talk to our kids about thier feelings to help them verbalize them, instead of letting it out in a negative way. If they know we will take them serioulsy and listen, then thiere isnt as much of a need to act up because of it.

happymom

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:21 pm

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or maybe they are trying to get your attention?? I think noticing when they ARE playing nicely, and when they ARE doing the right thing, thats when u should make a big deal! and if one kids is sarting to speak not nicely and the other is calm, COMMENT on how CALM the OHTER kid is speaking, and they will learn fast that acting the right way is what catches ure attention!

Tefila

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:28 pm

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unless it's pikuach nefesh - STAY OUT OF IT!!

It could become one. Have you never heard of a kid cauing another kid to bleeed accidentaly b/c they pushed them and the other fell too far ( This happend when I was little) Confused

Anyways I would slightly agree if we were talking about a nine and ten year old, but not when the age difference is three years or more.

Yes I do firmly feel as a parent, one should get involved and not just stand placidly (sp? embarrassed

) by. Unless they are teens and then they are welcome to fight elsewhere but not in front of me.

Also why is a 10 yr old fighting with a child four years younger. Op could u tell what is going on? Perhaps we can advise, sometimes fights with intervention can be preventable too.
HAtzlacha

happymom

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 10:29 pm

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goin your room, lock the door and make yourself busy. put on music so you can't hear them. maybe go out for a walk.
You must ignore them or it will GET WORSE!!
(pikuach nefesh is whehn they throw heavy things at each other - then you must get involved, separate them, and take away from both of them whatever they were fighting over.)
Never play judge - whoever fights, loses. and it always takes 2 to fight.

im sorry but I totally disagree. TALK to them and teach them how to handle things that bother them in a more positive way!!

mimivan

Sat, Dec 15 2007, 11:39 pm

As always, happymom's advice is right on the money, but I had another thought about the recording.

As a LAST RESORT would there be anything wrong with saying to the kids holding a tape recorder.

"Listen. I can't listen to this fighting anymore. It bothers me terribly. I think the only reason you are fighting is you don't realize how you sound. So if you don't stop fighting at the count of 10, I am going to turn on this tape recorder and I want you to hear how you sound."

There you go. No violation of trust, an open and honest approach, and giving them a chance to calm down.

I don't have problems with this, does anyone else? (as long as it isn't done behind their backs)

amother

Sun, Dec 16 2007, 12:00 am

I think many kids' arguments should be ignored, but it depends on the dynamics of what's going on.

I have a boy and a girl the same ages as yours, and it is predictably my son who instigates the problems (he is also the only boy in the family...). My daughter is constantly putting up with his provocative remarks - trying to get a reaction out of her - and also with his very physical way of interacting. She's tough but it's so hard for her and I will NOT give him free reign and just let them "solve their own problems." Bickering is one thing, but sometimes it's more like bullying - or at least a very one-sided kind of recurring problem that affects the younger one much more negatively. Then I think you MUST step in and insist on better behavior.

At the same time, you need to teach the younger one how to effectively respond so she doesn't keep playing into it, and also to protect herself physically and to protect her self-esteem.

I emphasize the word PEACE. I want a peaceful house. I want them to play peacefully (and I definitely do reinforce this with major compliments when they are playing peacefully). We give in for shalom rather than fight - or we talk about it - or we ask for help.

happymom

Sun, Dec 16 2007, 12:07 am

Quote:

As a LAST RESORT would there be anything wrong with saying to the kids holding a tape recorder.

"Listen. I can't listen to this fighting anymore. It bothers me terribly. I think the only reason you are fighting is you don't realize how you sound. So if you don't stop fighting at the count of 10, I am going to turn on this tape recorder and I want you to hear how you sound."

I just dont see the point. I dont think the only reason they are fighting is because they dont know how they sound I think they are more probably fighting because they are bothered, or upset, or annoyed, or are in a bad habbit of speaking that way to each other etc...I find it much more helpful to teach them skills that will help them in life of how to calm down. when they are in a stressful situation with a boss or coworker and find themselves getting into a heated argument, should they tape themselves to see how they sound, to stop the fight? maybe it will make the kids feel they are stupid., or they sound silly, or they sound annoying, but will that help thier self esteem? will it teach them anything?? I dont think so....

a good way to help the kids calm down is to say, lets count to ten togehter and breath (they will prob laugh but who cares, the laughter is good for everyone, and will make them feel better anyway) ok, everyone, one, breathe in breathe out, two (breathe in breath out) etc.... OK, Now that we are calm..........

dont u think that will help them calm down faster then taping a negative way o speaking and showing them how it sounds?

how about... Hey, do u think u can say that in a nicer, kinder way? and when they calm down, talk to them each privately, and tell them u are looking out to see if they can conquer the midda of staying calm and talking nicely when upset.

how we are not bad of having a feeling and all feelings are ok, but WE ARE IN CONTROL of how we act! and eveyrtime we treat someone with respect and talk nicely using kind words and a calm tone of voice it is a big mitzvah, its ahavas yisroel. the harder we try, the bigger the mitzvah!!

happymom

Sun, Dec 16 2007, 12:13 am

I think its the easy way out for the parent, and its being neglectful for parents not to step in!

I was once at someones house and a child pulled the hair of another child. the child ren to his mother, who was sitting next to me and said, that boy keeps pulling my hair! I was SHOCKED by the mothers response. (her pholosophy was work it our yourself) she said to her child "go pull his hair back" and she looked at us and smiled and said, he needs to learn how to toughen up and stick up for himself, HELLO!!! I dont agree at all! what are parent for??? shock

tzipp

Sun, Dec 16 2007, 8:21 am

I don't think recording them will help- like happymom said,I think they are frustrated and don't know how to deal with it. Maybe a teenager would respond to hearing herself, but a younger child would not know what to do with that information.

A chart system can be good, but can let you fall into the trap of bargaining with your kids all the time- in which case you lose. You are the parent, you decide what is allowed and not allowed. In the end I think a chart, helping them talk to each other etc. are all great, but as I said before first end the situation so that they calm down and get the message that the bickering will not be tolerated, and later use whichever strategies you choose.

happymom

Sun, Dec 16 2007, 8:44 am

I think a chart is great. or better even teah them what to do instead of fighting and as soon as u noctive them trying praise them, and if u see it conmtinuing make something really big like buy them something and tell them u are proud of them for acting nicelty to each other and how prud of them u feel when they treat each other with resepct....

and hardest thing but make sure u dont yell at them, because if you yell at them then they WILL YELL at each pther because they are copying the mother!