How would you react?

amother

Hotpink

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:09 am

causemommysaid wrote:

Thank you.

Honestly I can count on one hand the number of times I punished my 9 year old. We have a very chill house and everyone does their thing. But one thing that doesnt happen is active defiance. Ignoring yes. whining yes. listening for one second and then going back to the bad behavior yes. pretending they didnt hear me yes. But if I said no candy or no soda, I wouldnt then see them eating candy or soda. More likely they would follow me around the house and convince me why candy is healthy. Very Happy

Id probably give in too. Im not scary or mean but I dont do chutzpah.

Perhaps my approach works with typical children and there are some kids with a processing disorder or ADHD or something that needs a different approach but for the average kid I don't think my expectations are too high at all.

This is what's bothering me most of the OP's post - the open and active defiance. If one of my kids would be defying me, he or she would at least have the respect and decency to hide it or not do it directly in front of my face. This child was told a direct no, and a few minutes later he is happily licking the ice cream directly in front of his mother's face. That's inexcusable, imo.

Laiya

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:30 am

amother wrote:

I'll tell you as an adult - I still don't compute "I let" or "I don't let". 10 year old probably needs to understand the reasoning behind 'no ice cream today'.

It does sound draconian. But, it might not be a good precedent to always give explanations for your rules. Sometimes the explanation involves information about someone else that is sensitive or private; or something that you don't want the younger children to know about, or it would be inappropriate to share the reason.

Maybe the reason for, We're not buying ice cream from the ice cream truck right now is:
Your cousin invited everyone to a surprise ice cream party in a half hour; and said cousin is standing right there and if you tell your children your reason, they will 100% go tell cousin and ruin the surprise.

Or, Little Malky was recently diagnosed with a milk allergy and we haven't had time to discuss it with her yet, but she'll be devastated to watch everyone else eat their ice cream while being told she can't have any. Or not a milk allergy, but she's sick and can't have it now. And if you start discussing this with ds, Malky will be reminded that she's sick and can't have ice cream and you'll be dealing with another melt-down.

Or the hechsher became questionable from your perspective, but you don't want your kids repeating that to their friends (which they will if you share your concern) because it might actually be fine, you just need to look into it.

Etc.

urban gypsy

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:33 am

amother wrote:

Nobody's forbidding ice cream entirely. Where do you get that from? We have a freezer full of ice cream and my kids have some nearly every day. The ice cream truck is different because a. it's expensive ($2.50 for Italian ices!), b. it's a special treat (at least in our house), and c. we don't need to get something just because it's there, it's fun, or all the neighbors are getting it. B"H we can afford it (financially and calorie-wise!) but it is far from an everyday purchase in my family. I like to teach my kids about responsible spending.

Okay, so to follow your reasoning, a. he's paying for it himself b. he's getting it just this once c. this is the main problem: you ARE forbidding it for no real reason, just forbidding for the purpose of forbidding. My thinking is, there are innumerable things that we forbid our children every day for actual reasons. Why add onto that for nothing?

I have built up enough trust with my children that they know if there is no reason to forbid something, they will get it. They don't have to agree with the reason, I don't always have to tell them the reason, they can be very angry about the reason, but on a deep fundamental level they have that trust in me.

If you want to teach him about responsible spending, don't give him money if he can't be trusted to spend it appropriately!!! Such a simple solution. To me, the only appropriate consequence in this scenario would be to dock his allowance for the cost of the ice cream.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:40 am

Laiya wrote:

In those cases you say - I have a good explanation for this, but now is not the right time to explain it to you.

I guess I don't do authoritarian parenting. I see my job as to keep my kids safe, and prepare them to make good choices, when decision making is fully in their hands. (and of course to meet their emotional needs)

amother

Hotpink

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:02 am

amother wrote:

I don't generally do authoritarian parenting either, I generally explain my positions to my children. But part of my job in parenting is teaching my kids that if an adult issues a directive to you, even if an explanation wasn't immediately forthcoming, a defiant and chutzpah'dig response is never warranted.

A ten year old child is more than old enough to understand that.

Laiya

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

I agree, there are respectful and compassionate ways to say no, without giving reasons.

I think training our children to have self-control is 1 of the goals of parenting, because having self-control is necessary in order to be an emotionally healthy adult.

We want our children to be respectful of us because it's good middos, but also because it's how they learn self-control.

Saying no to a request, and enforcing that, can be done kindly and lovingly and without being authoritarian at all.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:14 am

amother wrote:

I agree with you. Its a balance. In the end of the day - we live in a world where we don't always get to make a decision - the ability to adhere to authority is required adult skill too.

(that said - the ice cream trucks come around a bunch in spring and summer - good to have a set of exceptions around when we as a family buy ice cream and when we don't.).

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:21 am

Laiya wrote:

I see self-control under the general umbrella of decision making.

I also want my children to have good middos including respecting their parents. I also want to make it easy as possible for them do that.

little neshamala

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:29 am

I am so blown away by some of the advice here. Just, yikes.
Not focused on the money part of it. That can easily be clarfied with the child.
For me the emphasis is on listening to parents. Addressing the defiance.

But a knee jerk reaction that comes down so hard on an already difficult and impulsive child is not likely to implement positive change in the long run. If anything, coming down so harshly will just make them more defiant.

I like how OP dealt with it. I would have done something along the same lines, waiting for a calm moment to lay down the rules, and explain what's expected of him, maybe work on a plan together with him to address the impulsiveness/defiance, a reward system, whatever works for the child.

Laiya

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:54 am

amother wrote:

You wouldn't say no to ice cream, for the sole purpose of helping them learn self-control.

But you also wouldn't say yes to ice cream for the sole purpose of avoiding conflict.

Although we don't look to create these situations, they are good preparation for learning self-control and managing disappointment as adults.

crust

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

Yes to this!
Impulsive parenting is just that.
That's why I say you need yo pick your fights very smartly.

I see that I'm quite different than most people here and I'm starting to wonder how many people conflate chutzpah and defiance with parential inflicted chutzpah and defiance.

In OPs case, had this not been an issue she chose fight over, this scenario would never happened.

I know boys that were raised by very authoritarian parents and lost their masculinity.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:23 pm

Laiya wrote:

I would say no to ice cream (and regularly do) because is a special treat for special days.. if we have too many treats, they aren't special - and its good to have special things in our lives..... also - and eating sugary things too often is not good for our bodies.

(or we are having supper now - and we don't eat ice cream during supper time. Supper time is reserved for healthy food. Maybe next time we can have a fun day where we eat early supper and run over to the ice cream truck).

I don't manufacture situations to teach self-control.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

Shocked? Why? Mom said he couldn't have ice cream. He got some anyway. He should not have ice cream if Mom said no.

I wouldn't take it away permanently, but I also wouldn't let him have it if I had said no. No means no.

If you wanted to buy yourself a treat and your husband said no, I hope you wouldn’t dare think of buying it yourself. No is no!

It is not our job to control our children. Our job is to teach them.

amother

Olive

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:55 pm

crust wrote:

I know boys that were raised by very authoritarian parents and lost their masculinity.

And I know people who were raised by parents who didn't enforce limits and turned out to be insufferable, entitled jerks. Kids need to learn to respect their parents' authority, and I see no reason that parents cannot have authority over when their child can eat treats.

pizza4

Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:58 pm

OP you did wonderful.
I was following this to see all the responses... I don't have a kid that old yet so I don't know how I'd respond. But it sounded like you dealt with it calmly and patiently.
Personally I don't buy from the ice cream truck... I did once or twice and stopped. Its way more expensive and I don't usually have extra cash floating around, the cones they buy drip all over the place, and I don't like the 'stop everything and run to the truck' thing. I keep a box of ice cream in the freezer and give as a treat from time to time.
But my kids aren't old enough to do what ops son did.