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How would you react?
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forever21




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:14 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I'm shocked at all the lenient responses here. I am a great mother and my kids would never do something like this but if they did, they know that they would be in trouble. There is no such thing in my house as deliberately ignoring a parent. There is plenty of selective hearing, whining, and ignoring going on in my house but active chutzpah like this? No.

Based on the responses here you would think that those of us who would take away the ice cream are beating them with a stick and locking them in the closet. Um no. Its a natural consequence that if you do something and your parent said no before you did it then there will be some form of punishment.

I will say that my kids probably wouldn’t do something like that but to say they would NEVER do something like this is a bit much . You say you’re a good mother and I’m not saying you aren’t but how exactly would you define “a good mother “?
Also ,good for you that your kids are cookie cutters but not all kids are !
As I’ve mentioned before , he may not have an understanding of what he did that was so bad . Could be that he was simply being logical and using his problem solving skills and not doing it out of disrespect. His mother could explain to him why his behavior was disrespectful but the the child does not necessarily need a harsh punishment.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:15 am
crust wrote:
I know boys that were raised by very authoritarian parents and lost their masculinity.


This doesn't result from parents respectfully enforcing limits.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:19 am
amother wrote:
And I know people who were raised by parents who didn't enforce limits and turned out to be insufferable, entitled jerks. Kids need to learn to respect their parents' authority, and I see no reason that parents cannot have authority over when their child can eat treats.


You can have authority over when ice cream is permitted as a snack - if the kids understand the rhyme and reason behind the rules. Rational rules.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:20 am
Laiya wrote:
This doesn't result from parents respectfully enforcing limits.



The bolded is not very authoritarian parenting.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 10:29 am
crust wrote:
The bolded is not very authoritarian parenting.


Neither is telling your child when he can or can’t have ice cream.
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amother
Hotpink


 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:24 am
forever21 wrote:
I will say that my kids probably wouldn’t do something like that but to say they would NEVER do something like this is a bit much . You say you’re a good mother and I’m not saying you aren’t but how exactly would you define “a good mother “?
Also ,good for you that your kids are cookie cutters but not all kids are !
As I’ve mentioned before , he may not have an understanding of what he did that was so bad . Could be that he was simply being logical and using his problem solving skills and not doing it out of disrespect. His mother could explain to him why his behavior was disrespectful but the the child does not necessarily need a harsh punishment.


I can see where you say that he may have decided to use his problem solving skills to buy the ice cream, but I don't see any problem solving skills, or life skills for that matter, in HAPPILY licking the denied ice cream directly in front of his mother's face.

A ten year old child is more than old enough to know better, especially when his mother repeatedly don't him that she doesn't let, as he ran to get his own money. Heck, even a child half his age would have the sense not to dangle a forbidden object in front of his mother's face.

I wouldn't be taking such issue with this scenario, if the child took his own money, bought the ice cream and devoured it out of line of sight of his mother and siblings. That's normal childish behavior. But lacking such respect for his mother is quite troubling.
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:28 am
amother wrote:
I wouldn't be taking such issue with this scenario, if the child took his own money, bought the ice cream and devoured it out of line of sight of his mother and siblings. That's normal childish behavior. But lacking such respect for his mother is quite troubling.


That would be way worse to me. Now you’re getting into lying, shaming, and promoting disordered eating. I can’t believe you’d rather a child behave that way than disobey their mother.
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amother
Hotpink


 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:59 am
urban gypsy wrote:
That would be way worse to me. Now you’re getting into lying, shaming, and promoting disordered eating. I can’t believe you’d rather a child behave that way than disobey their mother.


Yes, its lying and deceitful. But how is this shaming or promoting disordered eating? (If anything, he just shamed his mother by openly defying her in front of the siblings.) And to me, disrespect and Chutzpah ranks higher than lying. Of course, lying is an issue that needs to be tackled. But disrespecting others, especially parents and elders, is a core issue that underlies many inappropriate behaviors, including lying.

Being respectful of others encourages and promotes middos and good character. You generally try not to lie and treat others badly if you respect the other person.

I'd so much rather deal with a child who lies, than one who disrespects me, is rude and Chutzpah'dik, and openly defies me. If the child respects me, I can work together with him on the issue of lying. But if the child lacks respect and openly defies me, I won't be able to get much across to him. He won't be accepting of much of what I tell him.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:03 pm
amother wrote:
Neither is telling your child when he can or can’t have ice cream.


I think we figure out if its authoritarian parenting or not based on the answer when the kid asks "why" (and if he is permitted to even ask).
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 12:47 pm
amother wrote:
Neither is telling your child when he can or can’t have ice cream.



I have no idea where I said this on this.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 3:54 pm
To crust: I have a type 1 and a type 9 child. The others are too young for me to assess yet. I dont know much about the enegram but neither would actively be defiant to my face and do it happily. The type 9 would probably cry to get his way and the type 1 would probably throw a tantrum to get his way. Like I said, I usually give in cuz I'm a softie but chutzpah is not something tolerated in my house. I doubt it will emasculate anyone. Like I said, they do what they want most of the time and I ignore most of the cr*p they pull.

Last edited by causemommysaid on Fri, Apr 05 2019, 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Learning




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 4:00 pm
Let him eat the ice cream if he won’t hand it to you. I wouldn’t grab it. But take his money and keep it until he is behaving better.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 05 2019, 4:10 pm
forever21 wrote:
I will say that my kids probably wouldn’t do something like that but to say they would NEVER do something like this is a bit much . You say you’re a good mother and I’m not saying you aren’t but how exactly would you define “a good mother “?
Also ,good for you that your kids are cookie cutters but not all kids are !
As I’ve mentioned before , he may not have an understanding of what he did that was so bad . Could be that he was simply being logical and using his problem solving skills and not doing it out of disrespect. His mother could explain to him why his behavior was disrespectful but the the child does not necessarily need a harsh punishment.


My kids really would never do this. It's not a bit much to say that. I can see them sneaking treats behind my back but not smiling to my face while actively not listening to me. They respect me enough to at least hide their defiance. And like I said, I would probably ignore it and pretend I dont know about it. as long as it's not to my face I have the luxury of picking my battles. Like I said before, I almost never punish my kids. Literally less than 5 times in 9 years. We have a very chill house going on. Not tolerating chutzpah doesnt equal harsh parenting at all.

My kids are happy and well adjusted have friends and are doing well in school so I assume my parenting is effective. To me that means a good mommy. I'm certainly not perfect and I have specific things I am trying to improve. Tolerating chutzpah isnt one of those things.

No kid is cookie cutter but I did add that my approach works for my children. That is all I can base my experience on. Obviously some kids are different and if they have some kind of issue then they need a different approach.
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 11:43 am
amother wrote:
Yes OP is very loving, but it's possible that if she were stricter in general, she wouldn't be facing these situations so often.

Which is the better approach? I'm not sure.


Wow. I think perhaps you don't have a child that is challenging in the same way. Strictness with some personalities of kids totally backfires, provoking meltdowns, more disobedience, and alienation.
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 11:49 am
amother wrote:
In those cases you say - I have a good explanation for this, but now is not the right time to explain it to you.

I guess I don't do authoritarian parenting. I see my job as to keep my kids safe, and prepare them to make good choices, when decision making is fully in their hands. (and of course to meet their emotional needs)


This is exactly my parenting philosophy!
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 1:42 pm
I'm pretty sure most of you who would strictly punish don't have a child like this. This sounds EXACTLY like my son. From what I understood of the OP and based on my son, my son totally would not process the fact that its a total no.

He would get that I'm not buying it and be so excited about the prospect of ice cream that he would just figure ok, I'll use my own money without stopping to think. Then he would fly so excitedly and in such a rush out of the house that there is literally no chance of stopping him. And to himself, he's really not doing anything wrong. He's just really impulsive.

He would totally come back inside with a smile on his face, licking happily, but not because he's being defiant, simply because he didn't realize he's being defiant. If I then said, no is no and took away the ice cream we would all suffer the consequences for a week. The level of defiance would go up tremendously and his level of cooperation with anything household related would totally go down.

Instead, we're working on teaching him to think first. I probably would explain to him that I said no because his siblings would be jealous and have him share (which he would happily do) or put in the freezer for an hour or so, just to teach him to wait and stop and think first.

Later, not in the moment, I would discuss it.

Some of your reactions are totally not in touch with my reality. I totally put my foot down when things are too much but when the consequences (even small ones) are too much for him, they affect him for days.

These answers are really making me wonder if I'm just a really bad mother that my son would do such a thing.
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Oops




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 2:35 pm
amother wrote:
I can see where you say that he may have decided to use his problem solving skills to buy the ice cream, but I don't see any problem solving skills, or life skills for that matter, in HAPPILY licking the denied ice cream directly in front of his mother's face.

A ten year old child is more than old enough to know better, especially when his mother repeatedly don't him that she doesn't let, as he ran to get his own money. Heck, even a child half his age would have the sense not to dangle a forbidden object in front of his mother's face.

I wouldn't be taking such issue with this scenario, if the child took his own money, bought the ice cream and devoured it out of line of sight of his mother and siblings. That's normal childish behavior. But lacking such respect for his mother is quite troubling.


This!!
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 8:04 pm
amother wrote:
If you wanted to buy yourself a treat and your husband said no, I hope you wouldn’t dare think of buying it yourself. No is no!

It is not our job to control our children. Our job is to teach them.


So how would you teach them to learn self-control and respect for parents?
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amother
Gray


 

Post Sat, Apr 06 2019, 10:24 pm
I had a scenario when my then 8 yr old child brought home a list of school supplies, on Thu afternoon, that he needed, for the next week. He was all excited. He pleaded & begged me to go out to get it for him. I told him I don't have time now & anyhow he only needs it for next week. The next thing that happened, he took money from my purse, ran around the corner to the store, purchased his supplies & came home all excited for getting it done.

What I did! I told him that since he took my money without permission & bought supplies when I said not now....we will need to go to the store & return what he bought. I went with him & returned the items & got the money back. I explained to the sales clerk why it's being returned.
We went another time together to buy the supplies.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 07 2019, 6:18 am
causemommysaid wrote:
To crust: I have a type 1 and a type 9 child. The others are too young for me to assess yet. I dont know much about the enegram but neither would actively be defiant to my face and do it happily. The type 9 would probably cry to get his way and the type 1 would probably throw a tantrum to get his way. Like I said, I usually give in cuz I'm a softie but chutzpah is not something tolerated in my house.


I instinctively knew that your children are Type 1 or 9 based on what you wrote. They are inherently obedient without much reprogramming on the parents part. Tantrums? Yes. But impulse and defiance are simply not part of their nature.

It's very different with a Type 6 7 or 8 child.

Even an obedient yet dramatic and inquisitive Type 4 can make you second guess your parenting strategy.

Chances are you'll never have these types of children.

Good luck!
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