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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 5:45 pm
Ladies, please let your husbands know this. And your sons. And be careful yourselves.
So my daughter, who grew up chasidish but doesn’t look it today, was getting ready to take a flight this week. By not looking chasidish I mean, she wears leggings. Longer hair. Maybe a bit around the neckline showing. This is something she struggles with but she has the warmest neshama.
So on to what happened. A chasidish guy, he was there alone so not sure if he is single, approached the person in front of my daughter in line. Tells the guy in Yiddish, let’s make believe we are together so I can cut the line. My daughter hears this and tells the guy, in Yiddish, I have no problem but it is a huge chilul HaShem. Guy turns white. He didn’t expect my daughter to know Yiddish. Once they boarded, my daughter found her seat. As the guy passes her, he hisses under his breath. SHIKSA.
All I can say is, I hope he burns in he!! My daughter lost all faith in chasidish guys. Thinks they are all like this. (She knows they aren’t all like this, her father would never do this). But it is disgusting. We had to try to explain to her that he probably got his ego bruised and this was his way of getting back at her.
And to the two bachurim in line behind her during her connection. Don’t talk in Yiddish about what a rachmanus the girl in front of you is. She understands every single word. And she told them that when they asked her a question and she answered in Yiddish. They did feel bad. Or embarrassed. But please. Be careful. It can ruin neshamos.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 5:48 pm
The best rule my husband and I go by: don’t talk about people in front of them.
No matter if they understand the language or not ppl can usually tell if they are being spoken about.
Hugs to you and your daughter!! Your daughter sounds like a special young woman!
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thunderstorm
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 6:18 pm
My father who is no longer frum had many times that he was standing on the line in a takeout store and one person tells the other loudly in Yiddish "Let the [gentile] go before you"... and my father responded kindly in Yiddish to their shock. This was 25 years ago when it wasn't as common to have OTD people within the neighborhood.
My DH speaks multiple languages and he understands what the supermarket employees are saying about the "dirty Jews" right in front of our faces.
So yes, don't talk in front of other people thinking that no one understands or that nobody hears you because there is always someone that does.
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singleagain
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 6:24 pm
Just have to add.. it's one thing if you slip into another language bc you aren't comfortable in one. But to specifically talk in a language you believe most people around you don't understand. Is just plain rude.
Btw... Tons of stories on the internet about bi/multilangual ppl who hear themselves being bad-mouthed and speak up.
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mirror
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 6:52 pm
Op, I know this sounds crazy but they were brought up this way and don't know any better. Imagine that you were very, very sheltered and were taught that the primary Mitzvah in the Torah is wearing the Bekeshe if you're a man and thick tights if you're a woman. And everyone around you thought this way and this was emphasized over and over in school, by friends and relatives. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's just that they have no clue that such a thing may not even be accurate.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 6:57 pm
mirror wrote: | Op, I know this sounds crazy but they were brought up this way and don't know any better. Imagine that you were very, very sheltered and were taught that the primary Mitzvah in the Torah is wearing the Bekeshe if you're a man and thick tights if you're a woman. And everyone around you thought this way and this was emphasized over and over in school, by friends and relatives. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's just that they have no clue that such a thing may not even be accurate. |
I understand what you are saying. But don’t you think that in today’s day and age, people should know better? And how about the Mitzva of not hurting others. By hearing such comments, and a lot of others just like them, it only pushes these kids further away. They need to be taught better.
What would happen if this would be just the opposite. Imagine this is a Baal teshuva on the way up. Coming from wearing pants. Just doing it slowly. Hearing such a comment would be devastating, cuz in their eyes, they might think they look frumpy and they are slowly working up the courage to go more and more.
Sorry. But these people need to be taught better. Just because she hurt his precious ego by understanding what he said gives him no right to make such a comment. She happened to have taken a picture of him. Wish I would find this guy again.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:08 pm
I have that at work. Chassidim will speak Yiddish in front of me/about me and don’t know that I understand everything they say. Every once in a while I will call their bluff.
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amother
Orchid
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:10 pm
amother wrote: | I have that at work. Chassidim will speak Yiddish in front of me/about me and don’t know that I understand everything they say. Every once in a while I will call their bluff. |
Any interesting stories?
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Chayalle
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:17 pm
My siblings and I all speak a pretty fluent Yiddish (growing up with European grandparents, and a father who speaks English as a 2nd language, will do that for you.) We've had various experiences where people assumed, by our non-Chassidish dress, that they could speak freely in front of us or on occasion, try to take advantage of us.
Be aware that there are secular Jews, especially among the elderly population, who speak Yiddish quite well. There are even occasional non-Jews who speak the language. It's even possible that, just like with my yiddish I can understand some basic German (I got around in Vienna okay when visiting my grandparents), those who speak that language might understand some yiddish as well....
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amother
Slategray
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:21 pm
mirror wrote: | Op, I know this sounds crazy but they were brought up this way and don't know any better. Imagine that you were very, very sheltered and were taught that the primary Mitzvah in the Torah is wearing the Bekeshe if you're a man and thick tights if you're a woman. And everyone around you thought this way and this was emphasized over and over in school, by friends and relatives. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's just that they have no clue that such a thing may not even be accurate. |
I’ve always wanted to ask this: are Chassidish people really as sheltered as they make it seem? I worked at a Chassidish business and the owner and some other workers were always talking about sports, what teams were playing, who was winning, etc. I know of Chassidish women who are very into secular fashion and go crazy for Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc (even if they can’t afford it). Many are on Instagram now. Is the Chassidish world really so sheltered nowadays? I mean, sure, there are those who are but as a whole, I just don’t see this supposedly sheltered community of people.
Maybe I’m just hanging out with the out of the box types
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amother
Pearl
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:22 pm
amother wrote: | Ladies, please let your husbands know this. And your sons. And be careful yourselves.
So my daughter, who grew up chasidish but doesn’t look it today, was getting ready to take a flight this week. By not looking chasidish I mean, she wears leggings. Longer hair. Maybe a bit around the neckline showing. This is something she struggles with but she has the warmest neshama.
So on to what happened. A chasidish guy, he was there alone so not sure if he is single, approached the person in front of my daughter in line. Tells the guy in Yiddish, let’s make believe we are together so I can cut the line. My daughter hears this and tells the guy, in Yiddish, I have no problem but it is a huge chilul HaShem. Guy turns white. He didn’t expect my daughter to know Yiddish. Once they boarded, my daughter found her seat. As the guy passes her, he hisses under his breath. SHIKSA.
All I can say is, I hope he burns in he!! My daughter lost all faith in chasidish guys. Thinks they are all like this. (She knows they aren’t all like this, her father would never do this). But it is disgusting. We had to try to explain to her that he probably got his ego bruised and this was his way of getting back at her.
And to the two bachurim in line behind her during her connection. Don’t talk in Yiddish about what a rachmanus the girl in front of you is. She understands every single word. And she told them that when they asked her a question and she answered in Yiddish. They did feel bad. Or embarrassed. But please. Be careful. It can ruin neshamos. |
Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa.
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amother
Aubergine
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:28 pm
amother wrote: | Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa. |
Someone tried cutting her in line and you're saying she provoked them??? Nope.
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Ema of 5
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:30 pm
amother wrote: | Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa. |
How in the world did she provoke the incident? She was standing in line, and the man approached the person in front of her. She RESPONDED to that. His reaction later was in response to being called out on something HE HAD DONE.
And, for arguments sake, let’s say she HAD provoked him. That makes it ok for a Jewish man to call a Jewish woman a shiksa?????
I’m pretty sure this attitude, this victim blaming while letting those who react inappropriately off the hook, is what perpetuates this behavior.
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notshanarishona
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:33 pm
amother wrote: | Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa. |
What ? They were trying to taking advantage of her and cut her , how did she provoke them by not allowing it?
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Zehava
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:38 pm
Ugh
Such stupidity. I’m sorry for the pain your daughter is going through.
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amother
Pearl
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:47 pm
Ema of 4 wrote: | How in the world did she provoke the incident? She was standing in line, and the man approached the person in front of her. She RESPONDED to that. His reaction later was in response to being called out on something HE HAD DONE.
And, for arguments sake, let’s say she HAD provoked him. That makes it ok for a Jewish man to call a Jewish woman a shiksa?????
I’m pretty sure this attitude, this victim blaming while letting those who react inappropriately off the hook, is what perpetuates this behavior. |
The men were strangers. You don't know how they will respond. It is not smart to scold strangers. She got off easy with just being called a shiksa.
She said she had "no problem but it is a huge chilul HaShem." She accepted the cutting in line because she said she had no problem with it. She was scolding the men for how their behavior appeared - not how it effected her.
It's not ok to cut the line. But it is entirely foreseeable that the men would not react nicely to being told their behavior was a chilul Hashem. That's how you talk to a child. It is not ok to call a woman a shiksa, but you don't know how crazy strangers are and how they will react.
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Laiya
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:48 pm
amother wrote: | Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa. |
Good for her! OP you should be proud, you raised a girl who's not afraid to speak up.
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amother
Pearl
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:48 pm
notshanarishona wrote: | What ? They were trying to taking advantage of her and cut her , how did she provoke them by not allowing it? |
She did allow it. She said she had no problem with it. It was what she said beyond that which caused the problem.
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amother
Pearl
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:49 pm
Laiya wrote: | Good for her! OP you should be proud, you raised a girl who's not afraid to speak up. |
And she got called a shiksa.
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amother
Powderblue
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Mon, Apr 08 2019, 7:50 pm
amother wrote: | I’ve always wanted to ask this: are Chassidish people really as sheltered as they make it seem? I worked at a Chassidish business and the owner and some other workers were always talking about sports, what teams were playing, who was winning, etc. I know of Chassidish women who are very into secular fashion and go crazy for Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc (even if they can’t afford it). Many are on Instagram now. Is the Chassidish world really so sheltered nowadays? I mean, sure, there are those who are but as a whole, I just don’t see this supposedly sheltered community of people.
Maybe I’m just hanging out with the out of the box types |
Yes there absolutely are, in certain chassidish communities. Less so in others.
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