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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
PSA: watch what you say and when.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 10:57 pm
amother wrote:
And she got called a shiksa.

Because the guy is an idiot. Not because she did anything wrong. Stop letting disgusting men get away with disgusting behavior.
Also, if you are so sure that OPs daughter was in the wrong here, say so under your own name. Don’t use amother to tell the OP that her daughter deserved it. There is nothing personal or identifying in your comments, so there’s no reason to hide behind amother.
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honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:01 pm
The guy deserves a spanking for cutting the line, calling your daughter a shiksa and for making the entire chassidish community look bad because of him. Shame on him.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:08 pm
Ema of 4 wrote:
Because the guy is an idiot. Not because she did anything wrong. Stop letting disgusting men get away with disgusting behavior.
Also, if you are so sure that OPs daughter was in the wrong here, say so under your own name. Don’t use amother to tell the OP that her daughter deserved it. There is nothing personal or identifying in your comments, so there’s no reason to hide behind amother.


I didn't say she deserved it. I said it is not smart to antagonize strangers. I wouldn't tell a strangers what they did is "a huge chilul HaShem" because you don't know how they will react.

In this case he called her a shiksa which was his retort.
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sub




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:10 pm
amother wrote:
Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa.

Can't Believe It Can't Believe It seriously??
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honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:12 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't say she deserved it. I said it is not smart to antagonize strangers. I wouldn't tell a strangers what they did is "a huge chilul HaShem" because you don't know how they will react.

In this case he called her a shiksa which was his retort.


I actually think that she did a mitzvah by making them aware that what they did was a chilul hashem. Otherwise who knows how many times they will do similar things which might cause a chilul hashem and bring unnecessary hatred to other yidden? It might be the only way these kids in adult bodies will ever learn. Mussar from a stranger, when done right, goes a long way.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:14 pm
Back to the topic at hand, yes, I totally agree with you op that you always need to assume you are understood by those around you. I look like a typical American JPF woman but I actually speak Yiddish and another European language. I often hear vacationers talking loudly in stores in their native language, assuming they know who does or doesn't understand them. It honestly feels like I'm eavesdropping, since they would not speak so loudly or openly if they thought I understood.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:15 pm
amother wrote:


It's not ok to cut the line. But it is entirely foreseeable that the men would not react nicely to being told their behavior was a chilul Hashem. That's how you talk to a child.


Hocheach tochiach et amitecha. The young lady was 100% right. If that is how one talks to a child— though I don’t see why you think so, chilulei Hashem not being the exclusive purview of children—the man deserved it. He was acting like a child, both by trying to cut the line and by the absolutely despicable way he spoke to the young woman. He should be glad all she did was tell him he’s doing a chilul Hashem. Someone more forceful or less nice might have offered a few choice remarks about him, his behavior, and the questionable validity of his parents’ marriage.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:16 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't say she deserved it. I said it is not smart to antagonize strangers. I wouldn't tell a strangers what they did is "a huge chilul HaShem" because you don't know how they will react.

In this case he called her a shiksa which was his retort.


You're right. Sometimes speaking up is the right thing to do, sometimes it's dangerous, sometimes it's just not worth it. But sometimes it's good for someone to hear the truth, and maybe there's a chance they'll accept it even if they don't admit it.

Hopefully OP's dd understands that name-calling and line-cutting are a reflection of those boys and won't let it bother her. If she's able to accomplish that, that shows leadership qualities.
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honeymoon




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:19 pm
amother wrote:
Back to the topic at hand, yes, I totally agree with you op that you always need to assume you are understood by those around you. I look like a typical American JPF woman but I actually speak Yiddish and another European language. I often hear vacationers talking loudly in stores in their native language, assuming they know who does or doesn't understand them. It honestly feels like I'm eavesdropping, since they would not speak so loudly or openly if they thought I understood.


I think its very obvious when someone is talking about you even if you don't understand the language they are conversing in.

Two guys in the supermarket were once discussing me in Spanish. It was glaringly obvious that I was the subject of their discussion. So I turned to them and said in English "If you want to discuss people, I would suggest you do that when the person is not around." They turned colors and shut up. Some people lack understanding in the language of social correctness.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Mon, Apr 08 2019, 11:28 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't say she deserved it. I said it is not smart to antagonize strangers. I wouldn't tell a strangers what they did is "a huge chilul HaShem" because you don't know how they will react.

In this case he called her a shiksa which was his retort.


and I imagine this guy antagonized other people in-line. Good lesson. Follow the rules.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 12:21 am
In other communities and cultures such as where I live (not Chassidish), it's perfectly acceptable to spread Loshon Hora and destroy people's lives without consulting a single Rav. Posting a PSA here will do absolutely nothing for you just as my posts have done nothing for me.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 12:53 am
Yep, people seem to think that Yiddish is a secret language.
Good for your daughter, she said just the right thing. Be proud, mama.
As for their retort, Shiksa. Seriously? is that the best they can come up with? Clearly not the brightest of the bunch.
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Surrendered




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 1:27 am
Ouch, Their behavior and comment is disgusting and extremely naive.
I believe that majority of chasidim are abit more open minded then these narrow minded idiots.
We are a very colorful close-knit family. Ranging from ultra chasidish to ultra modern.
Though I do have one narrow minded sibling, who thinks that her way is The right way to live, most others are non-judgmental.
I hope she doesn't take it personal, and shouldn't think that this is what chasidim are all about.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 1:44 am
mirror wrote:
Op, I know this sounds crazy but they were brought up this way and don't know any better. Imagine that you were very, very sheltered and were taught that the primary Mitzvah in the Torah is wearing the Bekeshe if you're a man and thick tights if you're a woman. And everyone around you thought this way and this was emphasized over and over in school, by friends and relatives. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's just that they have no clue that such a thing may not even be accurate.

When my Israeli friend was sent on a business relocation to America her group was given a three-day course on American manners and how not to insult or offend Americans.
If these men are truly so sheltered and in their community it's normal to cut lines and denigrate people (which I don't believe for a minute) they should be taught normative culturally appropriate behavior by their community leader before being allowed on a plane.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 2:36 am
Now a days even non Jews can speak Hebrew. Here in antwerp I see it a lot by the people that work by yidden.
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amother
Jade


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 2:44 am
OP, would your daughter feel better if she read some (or all) of this thread?
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amother
Silver


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 2:54 am
mirror wrote:
Op, I know this sounds crazy but they were brought up this way and don't know any better. Imagine that you were very, very sheltered and were taught that the primary Mitzvah in the Torah is wearing the Bekeshe if you're a man and thick tights if you're a woman. And everyone around you thought this way and this was emphasized over and over in school, by friends and relatives. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's just that they have no clue that such a thing may not even be accurate.


I'm chassidish. And I totally disagree. We know much better then that...

And as discussed here, don't talk abt people In Front of them,in back of them, and Into their face Laugh Tongue Out Wink Hi
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amother
Silver


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 2:57 am
ONE person's doing, doesn't represent a whole entire huge community. So stop talking on chasidim. talk about this one insensitive, uneducated adult!!

Signed by a chassidish woman.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 2:57 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
Because the guy is an idiot. Not because she did anything wrong. Stop letting disgusting men get away with disgusting behavior.
Also, if you are so sure that OPs daughter was in the wrong here, say so under your own name. Don’t use amother to tell the OP that her daughter deserved it. There is nothing personal or identifying in your comments, so there’s no reason to hide behind amother.

He responded that way because he knew she was right.
Instead of manning up and apologizing, he wanted to cut her down.
Great middot!
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 6:27 am
amother wrote:
Your daughter sort of provoked the first incident. Don't instruct strangers in proper behavior. She is lucky they only called her a shiksa.


.... and now we know how boys are brought up to think that behavior like this is ok. They have mothers who think like this poster.
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