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Why Does the Israeli Voting System Still Use Paper Ballots?



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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 8:25 pm
As elections are today I’m reminded of this issues that’s always boggling in the back of my brain and brought to the forefront every election.

I remember learning in American history that they were many people who cheated when they cast their vote’s by casting more than one, or stealing the other parties votes. There are many a story of lost ballots (purposefully or not...). So as soon as computers came out they quickly switched to a new improved and modern system.

Hence my question... Why does Israel still use this seemingly old fashioned system? As per Wikipedia the the ballots is a simple board with all the parties initials made very easy for immigrants to read and pick out the party they are voting for.
Understood but a big touchscreen with all parties displayed in front of you is very easy to use as well.

Israel is the worlds Leading country of technology. Can’t they make a better electronic system?
Who sits there counting up the ballets?
Hwo do you know that no one is cheating, that no votes were lost or stolen?

Anyone can clue me in (Israelis are probably up anyway watching the news...)? What am I missing?

For this interested here is the link of the election results in real time: https://votes21.bechirot.gov.il
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Sebastian




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 8:26 pm
NY uses paper ballots that are scanned into a machine. Not so hi tech either.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 8:28 pm
In an age of hackers and in a country filled with brilliant programmers, it actually makes a lot of sense to me
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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 8:29 pm
ectomorph wrote:
In an age of hackers and in a country filled with brilliant programmers, it actually makes a lot of sense to me


Good point. That’s exactly what DH said.

So the papers get scanned? No actual physical counting?
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Apr 09 2019, 8:45 pm
Sebastian wrote:
NY uses paper ballots that are scanned into a machine. Not so hi tech either.


Same in lots of other states. I assume there would be large expenses associated with revamping the system.
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 10 2019, 5:14 am
SuperWify wrote:
Good point. That’s exactly what DH said.

So the papers get scanned? No actual physical counting?


The papers are physically counted, and the local election officials record the results with the national Election Committee.

When you get to the poll station, you are issued an envelope. You then step into a private area, put your chosen paper into the envelope, come out, and stick the envelope into a cardboard ballot box in front of the officials. Any envelope with more than one paper in it is disqualified.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 10 2019, 7:40 am
SuperWify wrote:
Hwo do you know that no one is cheating, that no votes were lost or stolen?

How do voters in places with a high-tech system know it isn't discarding their vote, recording it incorrectly, miscounting, etc?



But also an answer to "Who sits there counting up the ballets?" After the poll closes, the election commitee does. Each party can send someone to each polling place, both during the voting (to make sure no one put extra envelopes into the ballot box or let people vote with someone else's ID) and during the counting to make sure each vote gets counted correctly. They've also recorded the number of people who voted so if there are a different number of ballots in the box than there should be that will be noticed.
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ggdm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 10 2019, 1:23 pm
The paper voting system has been used for a long time. It is easy for everyone to understand and there are lots of checks in place to prevent fraud such as casting two votes. It is rather simple, actually, if it is with envelopes, you just need to invalidate any envelope with two pieces of paper. You watch people and make sure only one envelope per person goes into the box. The box is sealed and is opened only after voting ended. Sparately, you have a list where you mark who from the registered voters voted. And if 100 people voted and you have 100 papers, it is fine. Counting is done by a group with many observers, it is not so easy to cheat there. At least in my country everybody is free to watch the counting. The counting is done multiple times by multiple people independently, always watched.

With any electronic system it is much more difficult to include ways that every non-tech person can understand what is happening. Usually you need to blindly trust that the system works, which is never a good idea. There have been quite a few problems with electronic voting systems already, you can google for it. In your tablet example, how would you prevent a person from clicking twice?

For me, a big concern with electronic voting systems is the privacy aspect. With paper, nobody can know what you voted for. With any electronic system, ensuring that votes are anonymous is a huge problem, if at the same time you need to ensure that no person votes twice. And the right to keep secret about your vote is a fundamental aspect of a free democracy. So I hope that countries do not change to computer voting.

Coming at the issue from a different angle: Other than "it seems old fashioned", what is the problem you want to solve with computers? The number of people involved? You will still need lots of people to oversee the process even with computers. In my country most of them are volunteers and I actually think it is a cool way to keep people involved with politics. You think getting results is too slow? Actually, most of the time by the evening news of the same day rough results are already there. Only if it is so close like this time in Israel it is not so reliable. And for the final reaults usually the wait is still only until next day. This is not long! Make it easier for people to vote? Many people will find computers harder. If you want people who cannot come to voting places to vote, there are simpler ways which many countries use, like voting by letter.
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paperflowers




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 10 2019, 1:28 pm
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Same in lots of other states. I assume there would be large expenses associated with revamping the system.


NY actually switched to paper ballots a few years ago from those machines with the big lever.
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ggdm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 16 2019, 7:18 pm
The counting system explained:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....cess/
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