A different question for anti-vaxers

southernbubby

Fri, Apr 12 2019, 11:23 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I agree that there's no ethical way to do a double-blind study to test the safety or efficacy of vaccines.

I think it's important for both pro and anti vax people to realize that many of our medical protocols are not based on double-blind studies. They may be the gold standard, but often the gold standard is not achievable, sometimes because they are not possible.

Here are some examples of cases where double blind studies are impossible:
Hip (or other joint) replacement
Cardiac bypass surgery
Organ transplants
Impacted wisdom tooth removal
Any kind of talk therapy (which includes most psychotherapy)

Obviously, the patient knows what group he or she is in.
(Similarly, FF, a child's family knows whether or not he's been vaxxed, so it's not a blind study.)

There are many other types of studies, besides single-blind or double-blind, that show that something is safe or effective. One way to demonstrate effectiveness is measuring incidence of death or other serious consequence of disease in populations that are vaccinated vs populations that are not vaccinated. By that standard, it's clear that vaccines have been wildly successful in greatly reducing polio, diphtheria, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella, and more.

In terms of demonstrating safety, studies like the large-scale study (over 600,000 children) done in Denmark showed that there was no increased risk for autism diagnosis between those who received the MMR vax and those who did not. See https://www.npr.org/sections/h.....utism

I am sympathetic to those whose children experienced reactions to vaccines. I have a child who reacted to the DTaP vaccine at 5 months: he had fever and was much less responsive than usual for over a day. Basically, he became sick.But it went away. Like FF, there were no future reactions. Most reactions to vaccines are minor and transient. They are certainly not evidence that vaccines cause permanent harm to children.

I think it would be wise for medical professionals to validate parents' concern. Yes, vaccines can cause reactions. But almost always the reactions are not life or quality-of-life threatening, and almost always, they go away. In contrast, the consequences from diseases like measles, such as encephalitis, are horrific and damage often lasts a lifetime.

I think medical professionals need to put out a point-by-point rejoinder to the PEACH pamphlet. Yes, it will take time to do so. Yes, many parents will be confused by all the statistics involved. It's still worthwhile doing it.

I have seen a point by point rejoinder to the PEACH pamphlet written by health professionals here in Monsey.

southernbubby

Fri, Apr 12 2019, 11:30 am

I read somewhere that the Hepatitis A vaccine was tested on Jews in Monroe during an outbreak. Some got the vaccine and some got a saline placebo. Those who got the vaccine didn't get Hepatitis A but some in the placebo group did. Out of concern for ethics, the newly tested vaccine was given to the reminder of the placebo group.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Apr 12 2019, 11:34 am

southernbubby wrote:

I have seen a point by point rejoinder to the PEACH pamphlet written by health professionals here in Monsey.

I would be grateful if you could post a link to that rejoinder. I have at least one friend who still refuses to vaccinate and I think it would be helpful for her to see the response. (The anti-vaxxers that I know are not evil or pig-headed; they're scared. They need to have their fears taken seriously and addressed.)

newmother

Fri, Apr 12 2019, 11:42 am

I don't know if anyone has listened to this speech by Rabbi Dr Akiva Tatz but it is excellent in that he explains the benefits and risks of vaccines clearly
https://www.simpletoremember.c.....l-p1/

southernbubby

Fri, Apr 12 2019, 11:47 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

It was in print but I forget what it was called and it got thrown out. I can see if DIL remembers when she gets home.

Look at the post by Karat in the Williamsburg thread. A new booklet is coming out.

The name of the Monsey publication, written in 2017, is Tzim Gezunt. See if the health department can send you one.

HelloG

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:20 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Do you have that point by point counter to PEACH. Can really use it Please

southernbubby

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:37 pm

AmGold wrote:

Do you have that point by point counter to PEACH. Can really use it Please

I don't have a copy and my DIL threw hers out. She doesn't have anti-vax friends and didn't need it. Can the Rockland county health department or Hatzoloh tell you where to get the Tzim Gezunt booklet?

HelloG

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:39 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Is that the one that counters PEACH point by point or a different one ?

southernbubby

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:43 pm

AmGold wrote:

Is that the one that counters PEACH point by point or a different one ?

.
It is the one

HelloG

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:44 pm

southernbubby wrote:

.
It is the one

Thanks

bobeli

Thu, May 09 2019, 9:55 pm

I just got one in the mail