Poll: Do you vaccinate? (read thread first)

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 12:24 am

I have a question for those of you who delay or spread out vaccines. I'm asking this respectfully because I am curious about your rationale.

You are not following the recommended vaccine schedule. Whether this is in agreement with your doctor or not, what makes you think that what you are doing is better for your child than what the CDC recommends? If a kid has a cold or other sick symptoms, I understand pushing it off until the child is well. But I'm asking those of you who decide not to vaccinate before age 2 or those who don't do all in one visit, etc. Why are you doing this? What research is your decision based on? Why do you trust that research more than the CDC?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 12:26 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Curious do you have them give the one in the hospital or wait to give it by the pediatrician? (There’s just one they give them right?)

I feel like with all the anitvax stupidity it’s hard to get clear info/ recommendations about a spread out schedule, ppl jump to conclude that you won’t vaxx and shut it down.

I’m a FTM and my baby will be staying at home with me, I’m trying to find legit info about how to space and when to give each vaccine starting with the one they give in the hospital

And you're going to trust some random woman online to decide about your child's health? Don't you trust the vaccines, the schedule, the recommendations, your doctor? Why not?

Israeli_C

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 1:12 am

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

This is not true. I delay, with permission from my children's doctor. He told me it was okay to push off until they're a year, so they don't get any vaccines at all until their first birthday at the earliest. And they don't start any kind of school/playgroup/daycare until 1.5-2 years, by which point they are mostly caught up.

Medical issues aside, I'd find delaying shots difficult emotionally because there are a lot of them and the older the child the greater their understanding and anxiety. The last shot before school etc in Israel is at 2 years old and I always dread it...

amother

Mint

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 2:00 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

And you're going to trust some random woman online to decide about your child's health? [bb]Don't you trust the vaccines, the schedule, the recommendations, your doctor? Why not?[/b]

Maybe because the schedule and the recommendations prioritize compliance and convenience over safety, when the tradeoff is relatively minor, while I as a parent might be willing to endure some inconvenience for greater safety?

Doctors of today are not like the family doctors of yesteryear, and "your doctor" often means one of a team practicing together, who "knows" your child based on whatever is written in the chart.

Sometimes crowd-sourcing information is helpful in giving you what to discuss with your child's doctor. I know for myself, any medical person I discussed vaccines with was very respectful and agreed with me that delaying and spacing out vaccines made sense.

Iymnok

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 2:18 am

Israeli_C wrote:

But in first grade they give everyone.
Our TC nurse says to just bring the kid in. If you try to prepare them it often backfires. Same with blood draws.
The MMR-V stings a little, the MMR doesn’t. (They ran out of the MMR-V when DD’s classmate had measles and they all got early boosters.)

amother

Blush

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 2:19 am

I am so glad to see that there are so few irresponsible anti vaxers. let me just say this. I personally know a woman that survived cancer and then got infected by measles and DIED from an unvaxed relative. I sure hope this family lives and dies with guilt for the rest of their lives. I will also say that anyone one of you anti vaxer that infects even one immune compromised individual you have blood on your hands and hell is not hot enough for you.

Enough is enough. this isnt going away any time soon unless you stay home or vaccinate. Your BS about WANTING your children infected to boost their immune system is putting us at risk and creating the biggest chillul hashem in history. Banging head

Israeli_C

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 4:31 am

Iymnok wrote:

But in first grade they give everyone.

Yeah, like I said until school age. My point is that it's best for the kid (and mom!) emotionally to get as many vaccines out of the way as possible at the youngest possible age to avoid them understanding what's happening and going nuts when the time comes. I got my twins vaccinated a few days ago and they cried for 2 minutes and it was done and dusted. When DD got her last vaccine at 2 years old, she was very traumatised, suspicious of me when I tried to bring her places and still holds a grudge against "that Russian woman" (!!) who vaccinated her!!

Ravenclaw

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 4:42 am

Had funny discussion with my antivaxx friend.
DF: Can you say that you are 100% confident that vaccinations aren’t dangerous?
Me: No. Still think it’s the best choice though.
DF: Well, I can say what I am doing is right with full confidence. If you aren’t as confident as me, that’s proof that you are wrong.
Me: Um, logic doesn’t actually work that way you know...
DF: Did you do your research?
Me: Not really, I don’t have the time right now to properly research it thoroughly, so I am relying on my doctor.
DF: There you go. I did do my research.
Me: Really? I didn’t know you were that type. So you read the original studies, with all relevant factors in consideration like demographics, sample size, and random selection of sample? And medical journals? What’s it say?
DF: Come on, I didn’t read the medical journals myself. But I heard a lady on a hotline talk about them.
Me: Oh, that’s research? Fine, then I also did my research. You heard studies quoted by a lady on a hotline, I heard studies quoted by my doctor.

Now whenever antivaxxer say they did their research I am wary.

Metukah

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 5:21 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

Yes because that's when I looked into it. I went to pro vax lectures and listened to all pro vaxxers, and things didn't add up.
But I didn't want to be an anti vaxxer.
At this point I don't trust the vaccines are safe or so necessary.

momsrus wrote:

So you’re an antivaxxer.

Neh. Doesn't even seem smart enough. More like anti establishment.

When it wasn't a hot topic she vaccinated, now when it's live, it's more fun to be a non vaxxer.

There are people who thrive on being anti establishment.

I mean, cmon, she never had any issues with vaxxing and there weren't any outbreaks and she did without qualms. Suddenly there's an outbreak, people are getting ill and now she decides that vaccines aren't safe.

Sounds like an attention seeker to me.

amother

Puce

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 8:47 am

I'm the amother who said I don't vaccinate before a year.

What I asked my doctor when my first was born was, I'm not a crazy militant anti-vaxxer or anything like that...but vaccine reactions and injuries DO exist, and while I'm scared enough of the diseases that I'll give all the vaccines I'm also scared of potentially fatal reactions c'v, and does it really have to be when my child is a tiny newborn? Can't it wait till he/she is bigger and stronger?

And he said, yes, there's something to what I'm saying, and while he himself does vaccinate on schedule, he fears them too, and davens every time he takes his kids for shots. And he said that I could wait a year.

So then I said, is a year long enough, because I know some people think vaccines can harm much older kids, again, I don't know much besides word of mouth from antivaxxers, but is the benefit still greater than the risk given that I don't plan to send out before 3 or so?

And he reiterated, nah, a year is fine, the immune system is pretty well developed by then. And I was reassured, because he actually listened and didn't just shut me down as a stupid antivaxxer. And honestly, I'm open to vaccinating future kids on schedule since B"H all my kids have been fine thus far. But I also try to be responsible and keep my babies pretty isolated and am open about the fact that they're not fully vaccinated, so people can choose to stay away if they want.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:02 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

So is your doctor considered anti-establishment because he fears the vaccines, especially when given on schedule?

The reason so many vaccines are given to newborns is precisely because that's when they are the most vulnerable. If you don't agree with the CDC's premise on that, why would you trust them on the rest? IOW, where do you draw your line of what you follow and what you don't?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:06 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Maybe? Why wouldn't you look into this and find out? And if that's the case, don't you have a problem with the CDC's priorities? I mean, isn't their goal for everyone to be healthy?

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Doctors of today are not like the family doctors of yesteryear, and "your doctor" often means one of a team practicing together, who "knows" your child based on whatever is written in the chart.

I know, so then how can you trust them to make the right decision for your child? The doctor is following CDC protocol both in which vaccines to administer and when to do so. Doctors don't know much about how vaccines work and how they might affect your individual child.

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Sometimes crowd-sourcing information is helpful in giving you what to discuss with your child's doctor. I know for myself, any medical person I discussed vaccines with was very respectful and agreed with me that delaying and spacing out vaccines made sense.

And again: If all medical people you discussed this with agreed that delaying makes sense, you gotta wonder a) why do they keep adhering to the schedule? b) why is this the schedule? c) what else can I not rely on the CDC to know about my individual child and what's best for them.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:12 pm

Not sure what's so difficult about understanding that the CDC is responsible for public health policy, whereas a doctor can provide individualized recommendations for a patient. Obviously it's irresponsible for a doctor to make a recommendation on something he hasn't studied extensively. But this is not exclusive to vaccines, it's something that's applied across the board when it comes to health policies and recommendations. There are departments responsible for public health, and doctors responsible for individual health. Lay people should advise on neither public nor on individual health.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:19 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

I get it. It's not difficult to understand. I don't believe my kids would benefit from the CDC's schedule, and thus I didn't vaccinate them. I understand the CDC is responsible for public health and not for MY child.

I am trying to understand the POV of those who say the CDC's schedule has been extensively studied for safety and all vaccines are mostly safe and effective etc. etc. and yet demonstrate clear mistrust of accepted medical practice. They decide on their own (and maybe get their doctors to agree) with what works for their child. The doctors who treat an individual child and first and foremost responsible to follow accepted medical protocol and will not take responsibility for an individual's choice to aberrate from that.

Rappel

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:29 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Sometimes it's a gut feeling. Sometimes you see your kid has bad reactions. Does it matter?

amother

Cyan

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:33 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I believe that vaccines are mostly safe and effective, and also that the recommended schedule is not necessarily the best one my children. In my case my pediatrician himself recommends an alternate schedule. I'm not deciding anything on my own or convincing my doctor at all. My doctor is responsible for each child's health even as it contradicts with accepted protocol. Any doctor who ignores individual needs is an idiot.

southernbubby

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:42 pm

When I was a kid, the family doctor was like a member of the family. He went to our shul and knew everything about us. We trusted him as one would trust a relative. He initially made house calls, even in his pajamas in the middle of the night. He understood if it took awhile to pay the bill.
As someone pointed out, that relationship no longer exists and we don't trust doctors like we used to.

youngishbear

Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:46 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

That's funny.... and pathetic. אויך מיר research.

But also, anecdotal.

But you knew that.

Smile