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Poll: Do you vaccinate? (read thread first)
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Poll

Do you vaccinate?
Yes, on schedule.
 74%  [ 376 ]
Selectively and/or delayed
 6%  [ 33 ]
Only did because I was forced (want kids in school) or fined now
 1%  [ 8 ]
No
 3%  [ 19 ]
Something Else
 0%  [ 1 ]
yes, but on a slower schedule
 13%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 505


amother




Burlywood


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 3:54 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I am not that amother but I surely wouldn't want my family associated with someone like you....such hatred is horrible to your fellow Jew NO MATTER if they got a darn shot or not. If Hashem wants you to get the measles YOU WILL GET IT even if you had every shot in the books and your immunity comes back a trillion percent. Sick of these hatred threads.

My father is imunocompromised, so my reason for not wanting to be around people who can get him sick has nothing to do with anything other than keeping him safe. Guess you don’t want to associate with me either though. I do my hishtadlis, it would be nice if others could do theirs too.
PS: the hatred from anti-vaxxers is no better, so you can get down off your high horse. You talk about how terrible the hatred is, but YOU say that you wouldn’t want your family to associate with someone “like her.”
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 4:18 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
My father is imunocompromised, so my reason for not wanting to be around people who can get him sick has nothing to do with anything other than keeping him safe. Guess you don’t want to associate with me either though. I do my hishtadlis, it would be nice if others could do theirs too.
PS: the hatred from anti-vaxxers is no better, so you can get down off your high horse. You talk about how terrible the hatred is, but YOU say that you wouldn’t want your family to associate with someone “like her.”


According to the NY Post, frum families and frum communities are falling apart over this issue. Families who spent every Pesach together, no longer speak to each other and shuls have put people basically in "cherem" by not allowing them to participate in activities until they unite in the community effort to contain the outbreak. I can't blame anyone who feels that the anti-vax would put their family at risk, even if many would stay home if they felt ill.
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 5:22 pm
southernbubby wrote:
According to the NY Post, frum families and frum communities are falling apart over this issue. Families who spent every Pesach together, no longer speak to each other and shuls have put people basically in "cherem" by not allowing them to participate in activities until they unite in the community effort to contain the outbreak. I can't blame anyone who feels that the anti-vax would put their family at risk, even if many would stay home if they felt ill.

This vaxx/anti-vaxx this is almost as bad as politics these days, when it comes to relationships. It’s so sad :-(
I think there would be more room for being nice and for compromise if there wasn’t so much “do your own research and you’ll see anti-vaxx is right” and “why do people just follow, doctors don’t know everything” vs. “please tell me who and where you are so I can keep my family away from you” (in other words, animosity from both sides)[quote]
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 5:26 pm
As for what I do, I voted I selectively/delay, because I delay. I give one vaccine at a time (sometimes 2, if one is an oral) and I don’t start at 2 months. There are some I’d rather not give at all, but I don’t have the option to selectively vaxx. I also don’t give my kids the flu shot, and I’m very torn about HPV.
According to someone (can’t remember who, but I think it was actually an amother) on this thread, I DONT delay, because delay means you don’t give anything until your kid is school age.

ETA: I am not embarrassed by how I vaccinate my kids, I’m only anonymous because I started off with the post about my father.
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 5:44 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I have a question for those of you who delay or spread out vaccines. I'm asking this respectfully because I am curious about your rationale.

You are not following the recommended vaccine schedule. Whether this is in agreement with your doctor or not, what makes you think that what you are doing is better for your child than what the CDC recommends? If a kid has a cold or other sick symptoms, I understand pushing it off until the child is well. But I'm asking those of you who decide not to vaccinate before age 2 or those who don't do all in one visit, etc. Why are you doing this? What research is your decision based on? Why do you trust that research more than the CDC?

I delay and spread out for a few reasons.

1. If there IS a reaction, I will know exactly what it’s from. BH there have been no reactions so far, and my oldest is 12.

2. I just don’t like the idea of putting so much into my kid’s body at one time. It’s not that I don’t trust the CDC, I just don’t like it.

3. If you compare the American schedule to other countries, we give more, closer together. So clearly there is more than one train of thought here.

(I start at about 6 months, and I do one, or two, every few months.)
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amother




Vermilion


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:25 am
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
I delay and spread out for a few reasons.

1. If there IS a reaction, I will know exactly what it’s from. BH there have been no reactions so far, and my oldest is 12.

2. I just don’t like the idea of putting so much into my kid’s body at one time. It’s not that I don’t trust the CDC, I just don’t like it.

3. If you compare the American schedule to other countries, we give more, closer together. So clearly there is more than one train of thought here.

(I start at about 6 months, and I do one, or two, every few months.)

1. Good point. Why does no one else worry about that?
2. And I don't like vaccines at all. If you follow the research, there's no problem giving so much at one time. But you're going with your gut. So am I.
3. There are westernized civilized first world countries where vaccines are optional. I agree that there is more than one train of thought and that we should ALLOW for that. Not force our train of thought onto others.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 2:43 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
1. Good point. Why does no one else worry about that?
2. And I don't like vaccines at all. If you follow the research, there's no problem giving so much at one time. But you're going with your gut. So am I.
3. There are westernized civilized first world countries where vaccines are optional. I agree that there is more than one train of thought and that we should ALLOW for that. Not force our train of thought onto others.


Before the outbreak, it was a matter of choice and one person's choice didn't infringe on anyone's rights, health, etc but now it does.

A friend of mine who doesn't vaccinate can't get a sleep away camp to accept her kids. She is upset that frum organizations care more about pleasing parents than about the souls of the non vaccinated.

But imagine the liability if her child is incubating the virus while on the way to camp and gets sick and infects others. The other parents have rights too.

Before the outbreak, nobody considered her children to be vectors of a miserable and possibly dangerous illness but now it's either her children or theirs.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 8:36 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

3. There are westernized civilized first world countries where vaccines are optional. I agree that there is more than one train of thought and that we should ALLOW for that. Not force our train of thought onto others.


Just want to point out to you and to the amother you quoted that the majority of all western countries have very similar immunization schedules and the overall majority of them do not allow parents the freedom to choose that is offered in the US. People know about a few countries here and there where many vaccines are given later or are optional as you indicate, but the US schedule is even lighter than some European (our kids don't get the TB shot at birth, for instance) ones. Basically, all Western Countries have a similar vaccination schedule.

Also, the number of vaccines has no impact on the viral load you are given your child. For example, children today are given a smaller viral load in all of their vaccines combined than was the case with just one or two vaccines several years ago.

Anyways, I do not believe in forcing individuals to vaccinate because that is unconstitutional in my opinion, but choices can come with negative consequences like not being able to enroll your child in public schools, camps, etc.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:12 am
nchr wrote:
Just want to point out to you and to the amother you quoted that the majority of all western countries have very similar immunization schedules and the overall majority of them do not allow parents the freedom to choose that is offered in the US. People know about a few countries here and there where many vaccines are given later or are optional as you indicate, but the US schedule is even lighter than some European (our kids don't get the TB shot at birth, for instance) ones. Basically, all Western Countries have a similar vaccination schedule.

Also, the number of vaccines has no impact on the viral load you are given your child. For example, children today are given a smaller viral load in all of their vaccines combined than was the case with just one or two vaccines several years ago.

Anyways, I do not believe in forcing individuals to vaccinate because that is unconstitutional in my opinion, but choices can come with negative consequences like not being able to enroll your child in public schools, camps, etc.


You need to author a counterpoint booklet to be distributed to the PEACH crowd. Apparently some prominent Lakewood rabbonim are also supporting anti-vaxers so make sure that they get a copy.
I get emails from various Chabad communities and they refuse to allow non vaccinated people to attend their events and minyonim. Chabad is normally very welcoming but drew the line on people who refuse to be part of the effort to contain the outbreak.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:46 am
southernbubby wrote:
You need to author a counterpoint booklet to be distributed to the PEACH crowd. Apparently some prominent Lakewood rabbonim are also supporting anti-vaxers so make sure that they get a copy.
I get emails from various Chabad communities and they refuse to allow non vaccinated people to attend their events and minyonim. Chabad is normally very welcoming but drew the line on people who refuse to be part of the effort to contain the outbreak.


Kol haKavod for Chabad! That is awesome. I'm glad they're setting an example.
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 10:24 am
southernbubby wrote:
You need to author a counterpoint booklet to be distributed to the PEACH crowd. Apparently some prominent Lakewood rabbonim are also supporting anti-vaxers so make sure that they get a copy.
I get emails from various Chabad communities and they refuse to allow non vaccinated people to attend their events and minyonim. Chabad is normally very welcoming but drew the line on people who refuse to be part of the effort to contain the outbreak.

How do they enforce this? They ask for immunization records? Short of that, which in and of itself is a huge violation, what can they do? (Asking seriously, not being snarky)
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amother




Ruby


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 11:54 am
This whole "non-vaccinating" is so embarrassing! I am the only Jew at my job. People dont stop asking me if it's a "Jewish thing" to not vaccinate. I stress very firmly that we vaccinate and that I dont get why some people dont. It's such a chillul Hashem!
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 1:02 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
This whole "non-vaccinating" is so embarrassing! I am the only Jew at my job. People dont stop asking me if it's a "Jewish thing" to not vaccinate. I stress very firmly that we vaccinate and that I dont get why some people dont. It's such a chillul Hashem!

That’s just silly though, cuz there’s a whole anti-vaxx works out there that isn’t Jewish
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amother




Wine


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:00 pm
Quote:

3. There are westernized civilized first world countries where vaccines are optional. I agree that there is more than one train of thought and that we should ALLOW for that. Not force our train of thought onto others.


in Australia, one can not go to childcare or get government benefits if you are not on the schedule. I was a couple of months late for the 4 year old shots once and I lost my childcare subsidies till I got the child immunized. They are very strict here. I think it is similar to the USA. 2months, 4 months, 6 months, 12 months, 4 years, 7th grade, 10th grade. Here they do school age in school.
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amother




Lavender


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:21 pm
[
I am going to post three links.

1. A short summary of the study, from NPR. https://www.npr.org/sections/h.....use-autism

2. An editorial from Annals of Internal Medicine, the journal that published the Danish study.
https://annals.org/aim/fullart.....iderations

3. The article describing the Danish study.
https://annals.org/aim/fullart.....hort-study

(Impact factor of Annals of Internal Medicine: 19.384. That's a strong impact factor score. But even more important is the quality of the study.)

I challenge you to find any study of this quality showing evidence of damage from vaccines.[/quote]

https://icandecide.org/white-p.....Autism.pdf

https://icandecide.org/wp-cont.....2-2017.pdf
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amother




Lavender


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:23 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I have a question for those of you who delay or spread out vaccines. I'm asking this respectfully because I am curious about your rationale.

You are not following the recommended vaccine schedule. Whether this is in agreement with your doctor or not, what makes you think that what you are doing is better for your child than what the CDC recommends? If a kid has a cold or other sick symptoms, I understand pushing it off until the child is well. But I'm asking those of you who decide not to vaccinate before age 2 or those who don't do all in one visit, etc. Why are you doing this? What research is your decision based on? Why do you trust that research more than the CDC?


The Japanese schedule is much more spread out than CDC & infant mortality is 2 per 1000 vs 6.5
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:33 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
How do they enforce this? They ask for immunization records? Short of that, which in and of itself is a huge violation, what can they do? (Asking seriously, not being snarky)


Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Somehow I missed this. Everyone knows whose kids are vaccinated due to school records and people are talking about it and shuls are telling hosts to speak to guests about it. Cities are sharing info about warning symptomatic people not to travel or attend shul.
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amother




Navy


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:35 pm
really a concern!
IYH everyone will stay healthy and have a kasher v freilichin pesach!
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:37 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
The Japanese schedule is much more spread out than CDC & infant mortality is 2 per 1000 vs 6.5


Infant mortality is calculated differently in other countries and the opioid crisis adds to the death and disability rate.
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flmommy




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:53 pm
If vaccines are totally safe why do so many people feel the need to delay or spread out? If you trust what the doctors are saying why not just do it their way?
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