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Did the halachos change?
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 11:48 pm
Can anyone explain how is it that 20 years ago or so, when there were no self cleaning ovens, woman kashered it by cleaning it with chemicals, but today that is not acceptable and we must use self cleaning?
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 11:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can anyone explain how is it that 20 years ago or so, when there were no self cleaning ovens, woman kashered it by cleaning it with chemicals, but today that is not acceptable and we must use self cleaning?

Of course it's acceptable! Check the OU, Star-K, CRC's websites. I did it for years when I didn't have a self clean oven. (And mind you those ovens bake better than the more electronic self clean ovens.)
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miami85




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 11:53 pm
I think the chemical cleaner is incredibly dangerous so it is not recommended.
https://failedmessiah.typepad......y-345.html
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tichellady




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 14 2019, 11:54 pm
Nope
I never do self clean because my ovens have either not had the function or been too old for me to actually trust that it would be safe to use
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amother




Linen


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can anyone explain how is it that 20 years ago or so, when there were no self cleaning ovens, woman kashered it by cleaning it with chemicals, but today that is not acceptable and we must use self cleaning?


Did someone actually tell you this? Self clean is so much easier IMO. But not required halachically.
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papermageling




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:14 am
Self-cleaning ovens are easier and mean you don't have to handle nasty chemicals.

But if you don't have one, you can still use the chemicals.
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:15 am
Before self-cleaning ovens, my mother had an oven insert that looked like a metal box that she put inside her chemically cleaned oven. Much smaller and more inconvenient than a self-cleaned oven, in addition to needing to clean the regular oven first.

Never heard of being able to use a regular oven for Pesach without self-clean.
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amother




Linen


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:23 am
seeker wrote:
Before self-cleaning ovens, my mother had an oven insert that looked like a metal box that she put inside her chemically cleaned oven. Much smaller and more inconvenient than a self-cleaned oven, in addition to needing to clean the regular oven first.

Never heard of being able to use a regular oven for Pesach without self-clean.


It's the same as kashering an oven for any other use. For example moving into a new home. Clean well with chemicals, and heat it at the highest temperature for a given length of time to burn it out. It sounds like your mother had an extra chumra for pesach, but that isn't standard.
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:28 am
seeker wrote:
Before self-cleaning ovens, my mother had an oven insert that looked like a metal box that she put inside her chemically cleaned oven. Much smaller and more inconvenient than a self-cleaned oven, in addition to needing to clean the regular oven first.

Never heard of being able to use a regular oven for Pesach without self-clean.

A couple of years ago, my relative used this for the first time. It's awful! Nothing baked evenly. Lots of burns happened when trying to put food in and take it out. Sad Nobody should have this chumra.
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soap suds




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:29 am
seeker wrote:
Before self-cleaning ovens, my mother had an oven insert that looked like a metal box that she put inside her chemically cleaned oven. Much smaller and more inconvenient than a self-cleaned oven, in addition to needing to clean the regular oven first.

Never heard of being able to use a regular oven for Pesach without self-clean.


I know people who do this, mostly because they don't trust themselves to do a good enough job cleaning the oven beforehand. I know I would feel "safer" doing it this way if I wouldn't have a separate Pesach oven.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 1:48 am
In my family and community before self cleaning ovens. They didn’t use their ovens on pesach. Stove top only, or some used the metal inserts which basically made all food cook weirdly.

My grandmother only cooked on her stove top the entire pesach.

So if anything self cleaning made our lives simpler.
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MiracleMama




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 2:08 am
Before I had self-cleaning ovens we burned them out with a blow torch. I never heard of just cleaning with chemicals.
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seeker




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 2:11 am
I dunno, my parents weren't particularly machmir on anything like that, so I'm not sure exactly the source of the oven insert thing. Maybe the highest temperature of their ovens wasn't high enough to kasher it?

There were specific pans and methods that worked right, but basically you did most of your cooking on the stove because it wasn't the greatest oven, to say the least. But until the Wonderpot, it was the only way to make cake on Pesach.
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groisamomma




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 4:25 am
I hated the oven insert the first few years I made Pesach. We used it in addition to self-cleaning the oven. It was absolutely awful. When we finally moved I tossed it. Nowadays I self-clean it once, scrub and wash, and self-clean again.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 9:32 am
I have both self-cleaning and non-self-cleaning ovens. Easy-Off Fume Free is a relatively safe oven cleaner. I've used it for many years: https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Of.....B007RFQ8WK
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greenfire




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 10:27 am
ironically I think people are more machmir & less machmir at the same time

however the halochos did not change ... one can clean & burn out the oven with the highest heat setting ~ albeit self clean is easier
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amother




Olive


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 10:56 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Can anyone explain how is it that 20 years ago or so, when there were no self cleaning ovens, woman kashered it by cleaning it with chemicals, but today that is not acceptable and we must use self cleaning?


We used a blow torch.
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sneakermom




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 11:15 am
groisamomma wrote:
I hated the oven insert the first few years I made Pesach. We used it in addition to self-cleaning the oven. It was absolutely awful. When we finally moved I tossed it. Nowadays I self-clean it once, scrub and wash, and self-clean again.


I never heard of self cleaning twice.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 11:17 am
amother [ Linen ] wrote:
It's the same as kashering an oven for any other use. For example moving into a new home. Clean well with chemicals, and heat it at the highest temperature for a given length of time to burn it out. It sounds like your mother had an extra chumra for pesach, but that isn't standard.


From the OU:

Quote:
Non-self-cleaning Oven Libun (burning):
Clean all surfaces (walls, floor, doors and racks) thoroughly with a caustic cleanser (e.g. Easy Off). Pay special attention to thermostat, oven window, and edges of the oven chamber. Black discoloration that is flush with the metal need not be removed. Oven should not be used for 24 hours. Place racks in the oven and turn the oven to broil (highest heat) for 60 minutes. A broiler pan that comes in direct contact with food should not be used.

Note: The method of kashering described above is based on the ruling of Rav Aharon Kotler zt’l. However, Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l ruled that the oven must either be kashered with a blow torch, or an insert should be placed in the oven. Consult your rabbi for guidance.
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sneakermom




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 15 2019, 11:17 am
When I didn’t have a self cleaning oven I only used my stove top. It was simple. No cakes. But also much much less stress. And I cooked some delicious dishes.

Eventually I bought a pesach convection countertop oven and baked cakes in it before pesach.

Now I have a self cleaning oven. It’s very convenient. But I find I pressure myself more to potchke.


Last edited by sneakermom on Mon, Apr 15 2019, 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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