CHAOS IN LAKEWOOD: Hundreds of Yeshiva Bochrim Protest

shoshanim999

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:20 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

So why aren't we told?

It's a kosher entertainment, no mixed seatings, no secular music, and was advertised as approved by other Rabbonim. At such occasions, there is an expectation that the wrong be publicized to avoid precisely such a situation where the bochurim explode or the respect of our leaders weaken. They don't need to spell out all the details involved but a general idea of what was wrong with the event is expected. Otherwise, how will we not repeat this or take away the wrong message from it?

And while I may agree, or my Rav or my Rebbe may agree, - but maybe your Rav and your Rebbe won't agree. So why can't your children partake in the event? As I spelled out in my previous posts, all the Rabbonim SHOULD make their opinions and reasonings known, and let everyone follow their own Ravs. You shouldn't be forced to follow my Rav and I shouldn't be forced to follow your Rav.

And I will say one thing, it is incumbent upon our leaders to be in touch with the generations they're leading and to fully investigate the claims of one or two people before issuing mass directives that effect 100s, if not 1000s of people.

Everything you write indicates that you don't agree with the rabbanim cancelling the event. Again, we do not have the facts and we don't know why they made that decision. Until we have the very same information the rabbanim had in making their decision, it is unreasonable for us to say whether they were justified in cancelling the event or not. As to why this information is not know, I have no idea, Did you or people you know make calls to find out? Are the rebbanim specifically not being forthcoming with their reasons? Were the organizers of the event told why it was being cancelled? Can they tell the public?

All we're going on is that a seemingly kosher event was cancelled. At this point I assume there's more to the story.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:37 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

All we're going on is that a seemingly kosher event was cancelled. At this point I assume there's more to the story.

Yes, that's exactly right. A seemingly kosher event was cancelled, and not a word from the Rabbonim on why. I, as an adult, am left scratching my head about that. So what do you expect from the bochurim? Was there an explanation offered to them, something that they can relate to and internalize? Or were they just left with the same refrain that has followed them all their lives - that no downtime is apparently kosher?

I, as an adult, am left wondering if there's more to the story. Or if this was just one of the frequent cases where a select few individuals had an issue with something, and blew it out of proportions to the Rabbonim so they can get their way? I honestly don't know. But when something keeps on frequently repeating itself, a lack of explanation is equivalent to a response.

And again, I say all that as a seasoned adult (and if I may add - a level-headed one). What do you expect from Bochurim? I don't condone their behavior at all, it was very wrong. But if I understand it - you bet I do!

amother

Azure

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:42 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

I live very close to where the protest took place.

I just have to say that I'm pretty sure the protest was a lot worse than the event itself would have been (whatever was wrong with it, I'm not sure.) Those boys were having the time of their life, and I don't mean that in a good way at all.

To me that's the story. Bocherim protesting Rabbeim.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:52 pm

Does anybody remember "the big event" that was supposed to happen with lipa schmeltzer? About 10 years ago or so...they advertised everywhere and made a huge deal over it, and then it got shut down by a list of prominent Rabbonim.
It came out afterwards that the Rabbonim were fed total lies about what the event was going to be like. People in the business know that it was all a sham, and the only reason it was shut down was because they were misrepresented.

But the klal only heard "the Rabbonim dont let". They never heard the real story

amother

Smokey

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 12:53 pm

2 very strong minded people convinced the roshei yehivos to cancel the event.
Those people do not have teenagers at home because they're too young. In a few years from now they will iyh understand the need for kosher entertainment for our bachurim!
The event had the haskama of Rabbi Y. Jacobs
Rabbi Slomowitz was supposed to attend but then was convinced that he shouldn't.
Maybe last night protest will get the message accross... Sad

Ihatepotatoes

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 1:02 pm

Two things:
#1, Having a nice event for buys is great, as long as it's organized by good people. It looks like this was.

#2, However, Boys acting like hooligans rioting at 12 AM doesn't help people who aren't sure if the event is good or not think it is. It makes them think that maybe the person who was mad about this whole thing knew what he was talking about.

Ihatepotatoes

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 1:04 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

What do I expect from the Bachurim? That they should act like Mentchen and justify us viewing them as the victims here. I don't view Bachurim as typical teenagers. They're Jewish boys, and should act that way.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 1:05 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

BEST POST IN THIS WHOLE THREAD. Thumbs Up

DVOM

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 2:27 pm

chayalas wrote:

https://www.app.com/story/news.....2002/

Hope I'm linking this correctly. This is that APP's article about the protests. The video makes it look like the boys are singing and dancing, not rioting.

UQT

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 2:44 pm

DVOM wrote:

UQT, how did you explain the cancelled concert to your son? Was there any sort of 'teachable moment' here for kids who had been planning to go and were told that it was cancelled? What was the establishments explanation for why it was cancelled?

.

Teachable moment to teenage boys who are fuming at the system? Not really. They vented to their friends all day. It's a problem in Lakewood, a few outspoken people feel the need to tell people what to do and where to go. Parents don't always have a say. I just sympathized with him.

debsey

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 3:37 pm

My sons were there.
They said no rioting, just spontaneous singing and dancing. A "concert" with no concert. My sons did not witness anyone mouthing off to police.

I have sons in two different high schools. Both were called by hanhala (conference call, I believe) who explained that it is minhag Yisroel not to have concerts for no reason, since the destruction of the Bais HaMikdosh. It's different when the concert is for a siyum or for fundraising or on Chol HaMoed. Since none of these conditions were met (except in a flimsy "let's do a token siyum to say that's what it is), the Rabbanim came down against it. To clarify, this was the mashgiach/Rosh explaining, who is a much "smaller" rabbi than the ones who "assured" it, but they wanted the boys to know why.

My sons don't seem traumatized or about to chuck their yarmulkes! I allowed them to download lots of new music. (I was letting them go to the concert but wanted some Pesach work in exchange).

Instead, they (different ones did different things) organized a basketball game; ordered Mike's Chicken; went bowling; etc as their "treat" for helping out.

(And yes, the girls help out too, and their treat was SHOPPING....SHOPPING....SHOPPING and a new video that came out).

We're all just as happy, healthy, and wholesome as we were before this event. (If rather more bleach stained and exhausted.....)

UQT

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 3:49 pm

My son was there as well. Mostly boys standing around waiting for something to happen. I couldn't sleep at all, though I was truly Pesach exhausted, I was nervous that something would happen. At 12:00 I put my foot down and told him I'm coming to get him. A little after that they pepper sprayed the crowd and got everyone to go home.
I'm impressed that Debsey's boys were called and told why the concert was canceled. I'm curious which mesivta they are in. My son is in a so called 'beis' yeshiva and no such call was done.

Last edited by UQT on Mon, Apr 15 2019, 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

UQT

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 3:51 pm

debsey wrote:

My sons were there.
(I was letting them go to the concert but wanted some Pesach work in exchange).

Instead, they (different ones did different things) organized a basketball game; ordered Mike's Chicken; went bowling; etc as their "treat" for helping out.

Hmm.. need to tell this to my friend. She told me she had her son do a bunch of stuff around the house in exchange for a night off at a concert and he told her he's not helping out anymore because he couldn't go... Wonder what else she can bribe him with.

Mommyg8

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 4:04 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I got a text this morning from DS's yeshiva:
"Hagaon R' Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlit"a and the gedoilei Roshei Yeshivahs have come out strongly against tonight's kumzitz. Absolutely no bochur from Yeshiva XYZ should attend."

Thank goodness. I'd never want my son here.

I just asked, and was told this exact reason. R' Shmuel Kamenetzky told them to cancel it, and they asked the Lakewood Roshei Yeshivah, including R' Yeruchem Olshin, and they agreed.

I have heard that they actually said that concerts are not necessarily a bad thing but it was just this particular event that they were against. I have no idea why.

Also, my sons Rosh Yeshiva did come out against it personally for his bochurim.

debsey

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 4:09 pm

UQT wrote:

Not going to say what mesivta, but in general, I'm very happy with it. I have three boys in three mesivtas currently, and happy with all, but one stands out. Funnily enough, that was the one son who wasn't happy with where he was accepted, and we tried to move heaven and earth to get him in somewhere else. As it turns out, he was very happy there and I wish my younger son had wanted to go.

My son just clarified - the conference call was by a rebbe in his mesivta, but he invited any other boys from any other mesivta who wanted to know why to call in, so all three of my boys did that.

I did pick my boys up before any pepper spraying because they sensibly realized no concert was going to happen and asked to be taken bowling instead. I'm lucky that I have a much older son who was willing to drive them and be a chaperone to the bowling alley. (although apparently his idea of chaperoning is to bring them, drop them off, give them a family cell phone, and ask them to call him when they are ready to be picked up.)

debsey

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 4:11 pm

UQT wrote:

I consider it more like "fair pay for fair work" than bribery....but basically, whatever works.

Right now, I'm blessing Mike and his chicken. He seems to be very motivating.

(Also a shout-out to Surelle-Miss Polka Dot-Junee-Brooklyn SouthWest-Brendas- Girls On Glen - Bobbi Brown and Clinique for helping to motivate my various aged daughters).

keym

Mon, Apr 15 2019, 4:31 pm

debsey wrote:

My kids are younger. So I'd like to give a shout - out to Sprinkles.