Shouldn't parents put their children first? Always?

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:30 pm

I was reading through the "Stop the Hate" thread about anti-vaxers.

I am hoping somehow this wont become another vax-related debate thread... though it's based off that vax thread.

An Amother was basically called selfish for only thinking of her children when she decided (with doctor's advice according to her post) delay vaccinations for her children.

Please, let's not get into heard immunity and all of that.

The point is, or my question is, is it not appropriate for parents to do what's best for their children, putting their needs first? Pretty much across the board?

It seems such an odd thing to attack someone for.

It's hard to come up with any sort of parallel to compare.... I can't think off the top of my head what other sorts of choices I make for my kids that could potentially affect others in the way refusing to vax might. Yet I still find it wrong to condemn a mother who believes (right or wrong) that she is protecting her child from a serious hazard.

Thoughts?

amother

Khaki

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:34 pm

There's a piece missing here. She's only able to make that choice, to forego vaccinating her child, because she's relying on everyone else vaccinating. And it worked for a while, until we had a critical mass of people not vaccinating combined with travel to infected areas. If you don't like the word selfish, maybe disingenuous is better?

simba

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:41 pm

I wish I could put my children’s best interest first but I can’t thanks to the another that could. I have a 2 month old that can’t yet be immunized so we are stuck at home for Chol hamoed. I can’t risk taking him out during an outbreak.

Oh well.. I guess some are more equal then others.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:41 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

This is entirely not the point.

The Amother asked "why am I selfish?"

The response was "because you're only thinking of YOUR kids".

Who else are we supposed to think of?

We might not agree with that mother's choice. We might think it's not science-based, not smart. But selfish for doing what you think is going to protect your kids? I can't see it.

Laiya

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The word selfish is descriptive. She can claim it's justified selfishness, but how is this anything else? That's the definition of selfish, putting your own needs first.

imorethanamother

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:56 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You answered your own question.

1) Because it's not science-based.
2) Or smart.

Sometimes people are married to an idea, or incredibly fearful, and they somehow want the entire world to stop turning and adjust to their own reality. That's not being a good mother, that's just being ..... something else I'll refrain from saying here.

And the rest of the scientific world say that she's putting her own children in danger by not vaccinating them. So how is this protecting her kids?

If a woman says that the best thing for her children is living with their married parents, but one parent beats them daily, and the truth is that there are ulterior motives to her belief in how a household should look, should we all just stop and say, "Well, whatever you think is best for your child?" No. We all have common sense.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Apr 16 2019, 11:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, we always put our kids first. No, we don't put our kids' needs before someone else's kids' needs.

Therein lies the difference.

soap suds

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:09 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Yes, we always put our kids first. No, we don't put our kids' needs before someone else's kids' needs.

Therein lies the difference.

I disagree. It's ok to put our kids' needs before other kids' needs. The problem in this case is that it's putting other kids at risk.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:19 am

soap suds wrote:

I disagree. It's ok to put our kids' needs before other kids' needs. The problem in this case is that it's putting other kids at risk.

So if my child has scarlet fever, but feels 98% ok, and she's begging to go on the once in a lifetime graduation trip, but she's highly contagious - do I place my kid before other kids?

If the town only offers a bus stop at one location per area, do I insist on it being closest to me because my daughter simply refuses to walk the distance?

If my child has at most an assumed low risk to a vaccine shot, and my next door neighbor immunocompromised child's has a high risk to a sever reaction to measles, do I place my kid before the next door neighbor's kid?

We don't live in a vacuum, and don't consider the needs of our kids in a vacuum. Everything is relative to a situation on hand. There isn't an always or never in life. The key is knowing when to do what. And if you dig in your heels, and disregard the health and quality of life of others - Yes, you are selfish.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:23 am

If you live in a community and benefit from that community's infrastructure and social system, you pay into it by doing what we've all agreed is the best thing to keep everyone safe. You don't get to dig a hole in public property because you're putting your child's needs first.

Bor bireshus harabim

soap suds

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:28 am

Exactly. When your kid's needs is putting others at risk, then of course you can't say my child comes first! But if there's only one available slot in the art class my daughter wants to attend, then I absolutely will put my child first and do whatever I can to get her in even if someone else's kid wants it, too.
I was responding to Lawngreen who said we don't put our own kid's needs before someone else's kid's needs.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:41 am

soap suds wrote:

When there's equal play at both end of the equations, then yes, we put our kids' before someone else's. But not when in places others in harms way, or (at least for me), the other kids' needs are considerably greater.

Life isn't black & white. Every situation needs some thought attached to it. And as the other amother aptly put - if you benefit from a social structure and infrastructure, you don't dig a hole on public property because it benefits your child. Putting on blinders, and pushing through life with a me first attitude, is the embodiment of selfishness.

amother

Azure

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:47 am

Hatzalah BP mailed out a pamphlet promoting vaccinations along with a letter imploring people not to delay vaccinating their children.
It seems that delaying vaccinations has gained popularity in some frum communities.
I’m not sure why.

soap suds

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 12:49 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

I agree.

Miri7

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 1:21 am

The way I understand it is this - there are some people who cannot be vaccinated for whatever legitimate, scientific, medical reason. There are also people who have compromised immune systems.

If your kids have a legitimate medical reason not to vaccinate (not some quack doctor) then don’t. But you should be a HUGE proponent of vaccines because your kids are depending on herd immunity.

Absent such a medical issue, we should all put our kids and all kids first by vaccinating everyone. Everyone benefits.

Aylat

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 1:55 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

(As OP requested I am not connecting this to vaccines or to situations of danger.)

I don't always put my own needs/wants first, should I teach my kids that they always come first?

"I know you're tired and want to sit down for the bus ride, but I want you to give your seat to the pregnant lady."

I don't put myself last either, and I teach my children that their needs are important too. I advocate for them to get what they need. But I don't believe that my children are more deserving than the rest of the world.

mig100

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 2:30 am

Aylat wrote:

Well said.

Miri7 ur post is spot on also

essie14

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 2:40 am

Aylat wrote:

This is perfectly said. I can think of tens of examples that have nothing to do with vaccinating, as per OP's request.
"Honey, you see that whole line of children waiting for the slide? Well, you get to push ahead because you want to and I'm here hovering over you and all the other parents are not"
Life is not black & white.
If your child is ill or in danger, then of course your child comes first. But every other situation has to be evaluated separately.

If you have multiple children, then you know it's impossible to put each child first at every moment.

amother

Indigo

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 3:03 am

https://sassonmag.com/vaccines.....ew-2/
Very interesting article.

Possible conclusion: Chayecha Kodmin.

(In the case of an active measles outbreak, however, I believe that an unvaccinated individual can be forcibly vaccinated or quarantined according to halacha.)