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Israeli_C




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 3:03 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
IMHO, if you really feel like you don't fit in, then either you need to grow a tougher skin, or move to an area that suits your values better.

There's a reason why I live in an MO Anglo area, and not in a shtark yeshivish, charedi, or chassidish area. I want to wear my hippie skirts and sparkly necklaces with a Wrapunzel scarf, and feel at home when I walk down the street.

This exactly!!
Reading this thread, it's like Communist Russia where you're not allowed to move anywhere. You can leave and find somewhere more suited to you. TBH I don't know how anyone could deal with living in such a place as described in this thread. Materialistic, superficial, snobby... Sounds like my nightmare.

I live in a secular neighbourhood in Israel and look very obviously chassidish. If someone comments on my appearance or makes assumptions about me, I don't care because *I* chose to live here, and that also comes as a package deal. I see it as shlichut, and if I didn't see any purpose in it, I'd move to a charedi haven.
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amother




Lime


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 8:43 am
behappy2 wrote:
Any time you have similar people (similar age, similar values, similar lifestyle) living in close proximity you will have awful peer pressure.


Nope. There are plenty of places that don't have materialistic, conformist cultures.
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mochamix18




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 3:57 pm
Aylat wrote:
Wow, the prices people are talking about here are crazy! I spend nothing like that amount on kids clothing - same numbers or a bit less but in shekel instead of dollars. How does anyone afford that?

Right? People are talking about $80 for a shirt and I’m freaking out about 80-100₪ Per shirt 😂
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 5:12 pm
I told my husband today how thankful I am that we don't live in a place like OP is describing. I feel free... What OP is describing is a self made hell basically. As if life isn't complicated enough, you mix in brand name leggings for toddlers???!
I put sunscreen on my toddler and a diaper and take him to the park in the summer and so do other moms. Imagine doing that in lakewood.. They'd probably get a heart attack there Very Happy
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 6:07 pm
amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:
I told my husband today how thankful I am that we don't live in a place like OP is describing. I feel free... What OP is describing is a self made hell basically. As if life isn't complicated enough, you mix in brand name leggings for toddlers???!
I put sunscreen on my toddler and a diaper and take him to the park in the summer and so do other moms. Imagine doing that in lakewood.. They'd probably get a heart attack there Very Happy

It’s also certain types of people, who have a strong need to fit in, that take the pressure to an extreme.
Over the years I’ve figured out how to dress myself and my kids just well enough to “pass”, but not drive myself crazy. As I said upthread, I get my kids leggings from children’s place and gap and no one cares.
Matter of fact I bought my son expensive shabbos pants for Pesach and he hasn’t touched them he’s been in 4$ leggings all of first days.
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amother




Slategray


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 7:00 pm
amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:
I told my husband today how thankful I am that we don't live in a place like OP is describing. I feel free... What OP is describing is a self made hell basically. As if life isn't complicated enough, you mix in brand name leggings for toddlers???!
I put sunscreen on my toddler and a diaper and take him to the park in the summer and so do other moms. Imagine doing that in lakewood.. They'd probably get a heart attack there Very Happy


Scratching Head they are not brand name- they cost 12 bucks.

Life isn’t hell either Bh.

Lakewood isn’t communist.

Believe it or not many people don’t subscribe to the pressure and they are just fine.

Take My mom for example. Lived in Lakewood since she got married. Raised us kids on boxes of clothing from our great aunt. Sewed us matching skirts. We were the happiest and most popular family on the block (err make that complex).
It wasn’t that mom didn’t care how we looked. We all looked adorable in the matching Macy dresses grandma bought us. It was just that as a kollel family there was not a dollar extra and she tried really hard to dress us all as in style as the 1990s would allow with our aunts boxes.

And the whole Lakewood looked just like us.

Then we grew up. Something changed. We saw our friends in Biz skirts and Lacoste tee shirts and green crocs in camp. In school we saw Kipling bags and ballet flats and banana clips and Ralph Lauren pullovers. These were the new cool kids that moved from Brooklyn. For the first time in our life We wanted that. Mom took us shopping. (In the mall only. Not the crazy expensive Jewish stores. Mom never stepped foot in there. Oh and Kipling bags were from the newly invented eBay.)

Lakewood had changed.

Today it is completely non recognizable. Gone are the days of receiving boxes from great aunts of sesame street tees and skirts from Walmart. Flashy accessories, matching shoes and socks and European clothing are the rage. The level of gashmius is rising out of control and we 20 something year olds are caught up in the chase. And it is so super hard to get off the train because we like to dress nice. And we like to see our kids looking beautiful.
For a fashionista like me, it’s really tough.
It’s ok to dress nice as long as you shop within your budget and you are doing it because you like it.
Not for your neighbor.
And that we’re we really have to be honest with ourselves. Who are we dressing for? For what we reason are we dressing this way?

Even my stalwart mom who can be seen rummaging for treasures at Serendipity will be seen in *gasp* Kidichic or Tottini (two reasonably priced Jewish stores) with my youngest sister. Not going crazy. Nope. She will never be the lady with her daughters shabbos shoes in the hosiery store, trying to find the same color sock as the shoe. But putting in enough effort so her child- a super self conscious 12 year old- can dress similar to her peers (daughters of the 30 year old moms...) and fit in. (You can all scream teach your child individuality but hey- try teaching your child that. Maybe by her it’s not clothes, but maybe it’s that expensive kindle or other toy or fancy vacation?)
Back to mom- she’s still sporting her serendipity tops and simple shoulder length wig but she always looks beautiful. Because no matter what we wore at each point in life- hand me downs from our great aunt, target finds or zara specials- she always instilled in us that as bas Yisroel we must look beautiful, refined and put together.

When I look at a typical Lakewood woman with her brood of children all beautifully dressed (and btw we don’t match boys and girls here- only the chassidim.) I feel proud. Because she is teaching her children that Tznius is not about nerdy, or shlumpy.
She’s teaching them that they are precious, worthy of looking nice.
She’s showing them how beloved they are to her that she invests so much time in them so that they can feel part of the “in” crowd.

And I think there is nothing more beautiful then that.
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amother




Powderblue


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 7:11 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Scratching Head they are not brand name- they cost 12 bucks.

Life isn’t hell either Bh.

Lakewood isn’t communist.

Believe it or not many people don’t subscribe to the pressure and they are just fine.

Take My mom for example. Lived in Lakewood since she got married. Raised us kids on boxes of clothing from our great aunt. Sewed us matching skirts. We were the happiest and most popular family on the block (err make that complex).
It wasn’t that mom didn’t care how we looked. We all looked adorable in the matching Macy dresses grandma bought us. It was just that as a kollel family there was not a dollar extra and she tried really hard to dress us all as in style as the 1990s would allow with our aunts boxes.

And the whole Lakewood looked just like us.

Then we grew up. Something changed. We saw our friends in Biz skirts and Lacoste tee shirts and green crocs in camp. In school we saw Kipling bags and ballet flats and banana clips and Ralph Lauren pullovers. These were the new cool kids that moved from Brooklyn. For the first time in our life We wanted that. Mom took us shopping. (In the mall only. Not the crazy expensive Jewish stores. Mom never stepped foot in there. Oh and Kipling bags were from the newly invented eBay.)

Lakewood had changed.

Today it is completely non recognizable. Gone are the days of receiving boxes from great aunts of sesame street tees and skirts from Walmart. Flashy accessories, matching shoes and socks and European clothing are the rage. The level of gashmius is rising out of control and we 20 something year olds are caught up in the chase. And it is so super hard to get off the train because we like to dress nice. And we like to see our kids looking beautiful.
For a fashionista like me, it’s really tough.
It’s ok to dress nice as long as you shop within your budget and you are doing it because you like it.
Not for your neighbor.
And that we’re we really have to be honest with ourselves. Who are we dressing for? For what we reason are we dressing this way?

Even my stalwart mom who can be seen rummaging for treasures at Serendipity will be seen in *gasp* Kidichic or Tottini (two reasonably priced Jewish stores) with my youngest sister. Not going crazy. Nope. She will never be the lady with her daughters shabbos shoes in the hosiery store, trying to find the same color sock as the shoe. But putting in enough effort so her child- a super self conscious 12 year old- can dress similar to her peers (daughters of the 30 year old moms...) and fit in. (You can all scream teach your child individuality but hey- try teaching your child that. Maybe by her it’s not clothes, but maybe it’s that expensive kindle or other toy or fancy vacation?)
Back to mom- she’s still sporting her serendipity tops and simple shoulder length wig but she always looks beautiful. Because no matter what we wore at each point in life- hand me downs from our great aunt, target finds or zara specials- she always instilled in us that as bas Yisroel we must look beautiful, refined and put together.

When I look at a typical Lakewood woman with her brood of children all beautifully dressed (and btw we don’t match boys and girls here- only the chassidim.) I feel proud. Because she is teaching her children that Tznius is not about nerdy, or shlumpy.
She’s teaching them that they are precious, worthy of looking nice.
She’s showing them how beloved they are to her that she invests so much time in them so that they can feel part of the “in” crowd.

And I think there is nothing more beautiful then that.


Interesting way of viewing the issue.
Tznius doesn't mean shlumpy.. It also doesn't mean wear what everyone else is wearing or succumb to peer pressure.
I would actually go as far as to say that a person who really understands tznius doesn't need those things at all. She can probably be very happy with wearing nice things which aren't necessarily fashionable this year and be comfortable like one of the above posters.
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rainbow dash




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 7:16 pm
Bh I have no problem taking bags of shabbos clothes for my daughter, as it will go for my twins later on. I get so many shabbos robes which in the shops here can cost 70€ I've gotten shabbos dresses that cost 50 or more in the Jewish shops. I just bought a beautiful shabbos dress by h&m for 20 for my 12 year old. My kids only dress the same if I can get the same dress in all their sizes. My twins don't always wear the same, I let them choose.
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OutATowner




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 9:19 pm
Didn't read the whole thread, but OP if you want to move oot but not too far away, PM me!
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Israeli_C




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Apr 21 2019, 11:36 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
When I look at a typical Lakewood woman with her brood of children all beautifully dressed (and btw we don’t match boys and girls here- only the chassidim.) I feel proud. Because she is teaching her children that Tznius is not about nerdy, or shlumpy.
She’s teaching them that they are precious, worthy of looking nice.
She’s showing them how beloved they are to her that she invests so much time in them so that they can feel part of the “in” crowd.

And I think there is nothing more beautiful then that.


It's a much more important lesson to pass on that tznius is not about -
obsessing about how you look
chasing after the latest fashions
spending obscene amounts of money on clothes
placing your SELF WORTH on what you're WEARING
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amother




Pumpkin


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 12:05 am
I agree with the op but it's not the Lakewood that I know! I'm living here close to 18 years and I feel like it's the younger generation that are following this rate race. Yes they're on Instagram and all need a Camry when they get married and a doona and bugaboo when they have their first kid... But guess what my siblings out of town in simple communities are the exact same way. Always keeping up with the Joneses because of Instagram! Bh I'm not on Instagram and I couldn't be happier! I ordered my girls robes and dresses online and my son's shirts and shorts too! The way ppl spend money is out of control but it's filtered into the oot communities too! It's so sad to see:( if everyone would live within their means and not look at everyone else they would be so much happier! I don't feel any pressure at all here and my friends in my age bracket say the same thing! It's the younger ppl in their 20s and 30s that are chasing their tail.... Lakewood is a beautiful place if u look at all the positive things it has to offer!
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amother




Silver


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 12:35 am
I don't live in lakewood. I'm not on instagram. I don't know the styles referred to here I dress my kids in my own style what I think looks pretty ..so I went on instagram to the places someone posted a bit further back.. elegant child...panda and cub etc. I was curious to see what the craze is all about. What styles are pple chasing after.
And was a bit in disbelief.
Is the grungy "poor" look in? Shapeless sack style clothing maybe tied together with a belt ? Long drapy sleeves on box style dresses ?
Tight short leggings on 6 year old boys?
Personally every outfit I saw looked drab shapeless and colorless. Am I missing something here ? Truly confused.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 12:47 am
Amother slategray, very good post... Thank you for taking the time to write it up. (You write very well!)
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 12:58 am
When I moved to Lakewood 15 years ago I thought I was coming to the out of town city with people who were not particularly fashion conscious. I couldn’t have been more wrong!

I remember being completely oblivious to the “rules “. I didn’t know about buying a new wardrobe for the kids before pesach and succos. I was surprised when I took my toddlers to shul and noticed very yeshivish families with their kids dressed so well, all matching including hair bows and shoes. My kids were probably dressed in the previous season clothing or they might have been wearing something from Target. Of course there’s really nothing wrong with that but now I can see how we stood out. It took me a while but I slowly got the hang of it.

As my kids got older, other kids (neighbors really) would make comments about my kids shabbos clothing. I saw that it made my kids feel bad. I couldn’t let that happen.

So now you will find us in shoppers paradise, styled child, kiddichic and juvenile planet. We are trying on summer clothing in the winter so we can have matching sizes.

Then we head on for shoes. After, it’s the hosiery store for socks, shells and headbands.

It’s crazy. The stores are crowded. We spend too much.

I do this so my kids can feel good about themselves and fit in.

I do enjoy my well dressed kids!
Secretly I dream that we will get up and move to a community who doesn’t care much about clothing!!
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:20 am
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Scratching Head they are not brand name- they cost 12 bucks.

Life isn’t hell either Bh.

Lakewood isn’t communist.

Believe it or not many people don’t subscribe to the pressure and they are just fine.

Take My mom for example. Lived in Lakewood since she got married. Raised us kids on boxes of clothing from our great aunt. Sewed us matching skirts. We were the happiest and most popular family on the block (err make that complex).
It wasn’t that mom didn’t care how we looked. We all looked adorable in the matching Macy dresses grandma bought us. It was just that as a kollel family there was not a dollar extra and she tried really hard to dress us all as in style as the 1990s would allow with our aunts boxes.

And the whole Lakewood looked just like us.

Then we grew up. Something changed. We saw our friends in Biz skirts and Lacoste tee shirts and green crocs in camp. In school we saw Kipling bags and ballet flats and banana clips and Ralph Lauren pullovers. These were the new cool kids that moved from Brooklyn. For the first time in our life We wanted that. Mom took us shopping. (In the mall only. Not the crazy expensive Jewish stores. Mom never stepped foot in there. Oh and Kipling bags were from the newly invented eBay.)

Lakewood had changed.

Today it is completely non recognizable. Gone are the days of receiving boxes from great aunts of sesame street tees and skirts from Walmart. Flashy accessories, matching shoes and socks and European clothing are the rage. The level of gashmius is rising out of control and we 20 something year olds are caught up in the chase. And it is so super hard to get off the train because we like to dress nice. And we like to see our kids looking beautiful.
For a fashionista like me, it’s really tough.
It’s ok to dress nice as long as you shop within your budget and you are doing it because you like it.
Not for your neighbor.
And that we’re we really have to be honest with ourselves. Who are we dressing for? For what we reason are we dressing this way?

Even my stalwart mom who can be seen rummaging for treasures at Serendipity will be seen in *gasp* Kidichic or Tottini (two reasonably priced Jewish stores) with my youngest sister. Not going crazy. Nope. She will never be the lady with her daughters shabbos shoes in the hosiery store, trying to find the same color sock as the shoe. But putting in enough effort so her child- a super self conscious 12 year old- can dress similar to her peers (daughters of the 30 year old moms...) and fit in. (You can all scream teach your child individuality but hey- try teaching your child that. Maybe by her it’s not clothes, but maybe it’s that expensive kindle or other toy or fancy vacation?)
Back to mom- she’s still sporting her serendipity tops and simple shoulder length wig but she always looks beautiful. Because no matter what we wore at each point in life- hand me downs from our great aunt, target finds or zara specials- she always instilled in us that as bas Yisroel we must look beautiful, refined and put together.

When I look at a typical Lakewood woman with her brood of children all beautifully dressed (and btw we don’t match boys and girls here- only the chassidim.) I feel proud. Because she is teaching her children that Tznius is not about nerdy, or shlumpy.
She’s teaching them that they are precious, worthy of looking nice.
She’s showing them how beloved they are to her that she invests so much time in them so that they can feel part of the “in” crowd.

And I think there is nothing more beautiful then that.


Wow this post is so full of narrow-mindedness, because that is what this post is all about. Not to accept the status quo of an „in“ crowd existing and not accepting other people‘s rules.

Why would I want my kids to dress like an „in“ crowd? I want them to dress how they like and not succumb to peer pressure. Before teaching the kids that tzniyus does not have to be schlumpy, who even introduces the idea that tzniyus CAN be shlumpy? Where will it come from? If there were no in and out crowd, people would be wearing whatever is flattering on their bodies, there would have been a diversity of styles and not one single style that is in.

Beautifully dressed does bot equal matching or new. Each individual child can be beautifully dressed in a hand me down.

„For the fashionista like me“ I had to laugh, so you proclaim yourself a fashionista and the others I guess are shlumps? So there are only two types of people out there?

The most powerful thing that would liberate both fashionistas and frumpies would be to stop seeing the world so black and white.

Some of my kids are blonde with green eyes and others are brunette with black eyes and I am not dressing them in the same color. I cringe when I see all kids of a family dressed in mustard and other hues of poop just because that is in, regardless of what actually looks good on the child.
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amother




Slategray


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:26 am
amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:
Interesting way of viewing the issue.
Tznius doesn't mean shlumpy.. It also doesn't mean wear what everyone else is wearing or succumb to peer pressure.
I would actually go as far as to say that a person who really understands tznius doesn't need those things at all. She can probably be very happy with wearing nice things which aren't necessarily fashionable this year and be comfortable like one of the above posters.


To me Tznius means dressing like the noble princess you are.

Yes you are right about your second paragraph but let me tell you a secret- a person who usually understands Tznius is a person who is a role model (teacher, rebitzen, mother ect) - and even if she doesn’t need to dress put together for her sake she should do it for her charges in MHO.
I remember some teachers we had in school. Kollel wife’s who worked as teachers, no money, yet always looked beautiful and put together.
What I learned- a women is a princess who is allowed to look good even if she is in kollel.
A woman is a queen to her husband who should dress good for him.
A Jewish woman represents royalty and her clothing should reflect that.
Most importantly it was instilled into me that Tznius is beautiful.
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Studious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:27 am
Leggings on boys... so not my thing!
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amother




Slategray


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:28 am
rainbow dash wrote:
Bh I have no problem taking bags of shabbos clothes for my daughter, as it will go for my twins later on. I get so many shabbos robes which in the shops here can cost 70€ I've gotten shabbos dresses that cost 50 or more in the Jewish shops. I just bought a beautiful shabbos dress by h&m for 20 for my 12 year old. My kids only dress the same if I can get the same dress in all their sizes. My twins don't always wear the same, I let them choose.


And we have no problem either. We get bags all the time. But my point was growing up we only got bags from my great aunt- shlumpy tee shirts- and we were happy- today we only take from rich people who have really good taste. Smile
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amother




Slategray


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:33 am
Israeli_C wrote:
It's a much more important lesson to pass on that tznius is not about -
obsessing about how you look
chasing after the latest fashions
spending obscene amounts of money on clothes
placing your SELF WORTH on what you're WEARING


Yes you are right. But I’m in no way advocating the chase of gashmiyus and the waste of good money. You are taking my post and twisting my words.

But we do have a concept in Judaism of the outside shows us a glimpse of the inside.

See my above post of being a role model.

A Jewish woman is not a shmatte. Her clothing should reflect the noble character she is.
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amother




Slategray


Post  Mon, Apr 22 2019, 4:35 am
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
Amother slategray, very good post... Thank you for taking the time to write it up. (You write very well!)


Thank you. Means a lot. I hope more people can understand why some of us take time to do what we do.

I want my daughters to walk down the streets with pride in the knowledge that they are special beloved children of Hashem and should dress the princesses that they are.
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