Is the problem the no-vax or the no responsibility?

amother

Olive

Tue, Apr 23 2019, 12:19 pm

imasoftov wrote:

My neighbors shoot guns in their backyard in all directions, and sometimes one hits one of my windows. Should I be bothered by the bullets or by their negligence?

Exactly. That is a tough question. But really not. Because if Hashem wants the bullet to hit your house it will anyway. And if not then even if thousands of bullets are sprayed at your house they won't hit. On the other hand if Hashem wanted a bullet to hit your window he would make it hit all the way from Afghanistan. Wink

amother

Cerise

Tue, Apr 23 2019, 1:26 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

Of course. You still don't cross the street with your eyes closed.

imasoftov

Wed, Apr 24 2019, 6:35 am

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

If there's a leak in your roof do you have it fixed or do raindrops follow different laws than bullets?

southernbubby

Wed, Apr 24 2019, 7:52 am

If a fully vaccinated child unknownly came to sleep away camp while incubating measles and caused another blameless person to catch it, there would be nobody else to point fingers at but because society views it as a responsibility to vaccinate, an non vaccinated child would probably not be able to attend camp. I have seen anti-vax mothers get angry at this because their child's neshama should be more important to the camp administration than the possible threat of a measles outbreak at camp. The camp, meanwhile, is expected to be responsible for the health and safety of the campers but can't be held responsible if a fully vaccinated camper falls ill and infects others (such as babies of staff members or elderly people at visiting day).

out-of-towner

Mon, May 06 2019, 4:50 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

I exposed my kids, & kept them home until they recovered fully, they are are immune for life. But some ignorant neighbors still hate me & instigate their kids to harass mine.

1 daughter received hate mail to our house

Great that you knowingly exposed your kids to it and quarantined them until they were over it, but what if you didn't know that your kids were exposed to it, and they got it and gave it to someone immunocompromised. How would you ever be able to forgive yourself?

And really, no one in your family went out for 21 days from the time of exposure??? Not to a public playground, not to the store or doctors office?

ectomorph

Mon, May 06 2019, 4:53 pm

out-of-towner wrote:

This is clearly another PEACH thread

amother

Hotpink

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:45 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

There is reason to hate you, because other unvaccinated that didn't get measles, are still able to infect my 3 month old. Please understand me.

amother

Gray

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:56 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Did you keep them all home from the minute they were exposed till the day they were no longer considered contagious?

Did you keep them inside your apartment, and not let them put a foot outside your doors, into any common area, for the full 2-3 weeks?

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:33 pm

This response is directed to both amother OP and amother Lemon. It is also directed to all those who say it's okay to not immunize as long as you are willing to keep your kids quarantined for three weeks in case of exposure -- incidental or intentional -- to measles.

No, it's not okay. Even if you are truly willing and able to cut off contact with society for three weeks, which is much less feasible than it seems, it's not okay, because there's a substantial chance that someone who has measles will need medical care. Five percent get pneumonia. In the current measles outbreak, the rate of hospitalization seems to be around 25%, and they don't hospitalize for minor reasons these days. Presumably there are others who don't need hospitalization but need to get to a doctor or other medical care provider. So they don't stay quarantined, and they do spread the illness.

So, amother Lemon, when you exposed your kids to the measles, you were taking a 25% chance, for each kid, that you'd eventually be taking them outside your home for medical care. I mean, I hope you'd take them to the doctor if they had trouble breathing? Because if not, you're both foolhardy and cruel. But if you are willing to take them, then you're not really committing to quarantine.

So this puts the lie to the premise of the thread. You're not being responsible, amother OP. The no-vax stance entails a shameful lack of responsibility.

doodlesmom

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Forget "them." I am asking about ME.

Or, as the title of this thread, is the problem not vaccinating or being irresponsible about potentially spreading disease?

What happens if after the 3 week isolation you are exposed again and again? Will you keep your kids home for months or will you cheat?

Ema of 5

Mon, May 06 2019, 6:41 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Forget "them." I am asking about ME.

Or, as the title of this thread, is the problem not vaccinating or being irresponsible about potentially spreading disease?

You are responsible, and everyone who is worried thanks you.
Unfortunately, not everyone is. I remember a post somewhere that someone’s sister in law gets a call from the school, when it is “safe” to bring her kids to school- after health department officials leave. I’m betting that if her kids are exposed, she won’t keep them home, and I’m not convinced she would report if her kids actually do get measles. Unfortunately, not everyone who doesn’t vaccinate takes the necessary precautions.

imasoftov

Tue, May 07 2019, 6:10 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Perhaps someone will smash your mailbox or glue it shut and then you won't have that problem anymore.

nchr

Tue, May 07 2019, 7:42 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

They are as immune for life as someone who recieved two immunizations with MMR. Regardless of your decision, your neighbors should not be harassing your children or sending them hate mail. Your children did not do anything. That is unacceptable. You may neighbors that hate your decision, find you ignorant, etc. but there are many people in the world we disagree with and it does not mean we should harass them.

southernbubby

Tue, May 07 2019, 8:40 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I will also point out that most delivery services in my metropolitan area require me to sign for deliveries. I am not seeing how complete quarantine is achieved.

More than likely, the drivers are vaccinated.

JoyInTheMorning

Tue, May 07 2019, 8:45 am

southernbubby wrote:

More than likely, the drivers are vaccinated.

Even if I were a vaccinated driver, I would not want to step into a house with measles. I'm vaccinated from childhood, and just got a booster a few weeks ago, and I'm still a bit worried about measles.

Certainly, it's possible to keep up a three-week quarantine every time your kids are exposed to measles, or when they have measles. I'm just not convinced that true quarantine is being achieved by these women. And as I pointed out above, there will be many cases where the kids have to be taken out of the house for medical care.