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Forum
-> Children's Health
ora_43
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 Tue, Apr 23 2019, 3:18 pm
| amother [ Amethyst ] wrote: | | I live in a tropical US climate and lice is not common here. |
Lice being more common in some climates than in others doesn't mean that each climate of the same type has an equal distribution of lice.
But there's definitely a link between lice and weather; that's why recent weather changes have meant more lice farther north (eg lice epidemics in Europe including Nordic countries).
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amother
Coral
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 3:19 pm
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Is this a all-over-Israel issue or just within certain communities? We're here for the first time and I had no clue. Neither myself nor my children have ever had lice and I don't want our beautiful trip to end with those creepy crawlies.
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amother
Cobalt
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 3:30 pm
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Then I would get some preventative oils like rosemary and tea tree and comb it through my kids hair - it’s very common so pays to be proactive - hatzlocha
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amother
Royalblue
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 3:33 pm
| amother [ Coral ] wrote: | | Is this a all-over-Israel issue or just within certain communities? We're here for the first time and I had no clue. Neither myself nor my children have ever had lice and I don't want our beautiful trip to end with those creepy crawlies. |
Not living in Israel, I cannot recommend any preventative sprays that may be available. But one important piece of advice is LEARN how to check your kids. If you check them on a weekly basis for a few weeks after you return and don't see any lice, you should be in the clear. Get someone to check you as well, but unless you are trying on headgear in stores, it is relatively unlikely that your kids will not have caught it and you will.
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amother
Gold
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 4:13 pm
I'm in Israel as well and I've been fighting against lice on my childrens' heads for years. They keep getting re-infected. I don't like insecticides/chemicals either, but there are good non-insecticide commercial products that are based on synthetic oil, for an example Ridlice (רידלייס) and Resultz (ריזאלטס). Need to be on the hair just for 5-10 minutes, then wash out with shampoo. The oil is chemically inert and just suffocates the lice by jamming their breathing holes. The treatment needs to be repeated after a week to prevent any accidentally surviving lice from breeding again.
Other than that, it's just combing and combing again every 2 days or so with a lice removing comb, to check for and remove small new infestations. If the comb is wet, the lice will stick to it - it's the easiest way to check if there are new lice present.
And, no, imho being anti-chemicals doesn't compare to anti-vaxx. Lice are a big nuisance but not actually dangerous and they can be eradicated without chemicals. It's just more work.
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Rappel
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 4:24 pm
Fun trick against lice!!
Get garlic oil (among the vitamin supplements in the pharmacy), rub a few drops on your hands in the morning, and then into your children's hair. Lice hate the smell, and they won't infest them. For humans, the smell is gone in a minute, so no peer problems.
(This works as a preventative - it doesn't cure a current infestation.)
Last edited by Rappel on Tue, Apr 23 2019, 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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notshanarishona
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 4:26 pm
There are plenty of people in Israel who are very bothered by lice and would not appreciate their kids being exposed. I do think it's selfish to not treat right away and that is what makes spread.
I lived in Israel for 8+ years so I understand some Israelis are chilled about it but many are not especially if you are going places with a lot of people I would treat .
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Rappel
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 4:37 pm
| notshanarishona wrote: | There are plenty of people in Israel who are very bothered by lice and would not appreciate their kids being exposed. I do think it's selfish to not treat right away and that is what makes spread.
I lived in Israel for 8+ years so I understand some Israelis are chilled about it but many are not especially if you are going places with a lot of people I would treat . |
This has been my experience. Although we are not immune to lice in Itamar, no one just let's it be. An infestation usually stops with the first child who carries the bugs.
On the other hand, my friend who lives in an Anglo- heavy town tells me that there are parents there whom just aren't very worried about lice, since they're not dangerous. That boggles my mind. Your children are scratching themselves to pieces, but it's okay, it's natural?? Nope. Nope.
Last edited by Rappel on Tue, Apr 23 2019, 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miri7
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 5:27 pm
Lice are a pain but they never killed anyone, or caused blindness or required hospitalization.
I don’t live in EY but I’ve found the chemicals are pretty worthless. When one of my kids gets lice, I soak their hair in vegetable oil with lavender, rosemary and other oils. Then I comb each kid every day for a few days, then every other day.
I wash all the sheets etc, the run all sheets and linens on high heat every day for about a week or so.
When I do this, we get rid of the lice. If I just use chemicals and comb once or twice, they come back.
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amother
Crimson
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 6:05 pm
| ora_43 wrote: | | The reason lice are rampant in EY is mostly that it's a totally different climate. Cold weather doesn't kill lice completely, but lice do way better with warm winters and rainy springs. So basically, a climate like we have here. |
I live in a warm climate with much warmer winters & we do not have lice because we take lice seriously
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batya315
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Tue, Apr 23 2019, 11:52 pm
Try Dr. Fischer's Comb and Care treatment spray.
Natural and effective
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WitchKitty
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 2:10 am
Is this the first time your MIL is coming?
Where I live, when there are a lot of kids in the family, there is NO WAY to have a day without at least one louse, because they go to school, and catch it from one another, and you cannot comb all of them every day.
So twice a week or so, they will always have. ALWAYS.
It is a tedious, never ending job of combing long hair.
When we have guests from US staying for more than a few days at a time, we will introduce them to our comb.
If they come often, they know our comb well.
It is a fact of life for Israelis.
Yes, there are natural things to use, and we use them. Neem oil, rosmary, tea tree. Baby oil and vinegar for easier combing. There is prevention, teaching the kids not to put their head near a friend, to sleep on their own bed.
When there's an infestation, we will use unnatural. Sometimes there is no choice.
But this is Israel, the country we love, and that's just part of living here.
And visiting here.
Every country you visit has the things you should be terrified of. So we have terror attacks and lice.
Maybe let your MIL read this thread.
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ora_43
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 2:53 am
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | | I live in a warm climate with much warmer winters & we do not have lice because we take lice seriously |
I really don't get why people are assuming Israelis don't take lice seriously. It feels like there's a strong undercurrent of talking as if Israelis are unkempt, lower-class people.
There are a lot of reasons why lice are more prevalent in some places than others. Climate is a big one but not the only one. There's also the question of whether lice are treatment resistant (most lice in Israel are), of family size and living conditions (more kids in smaller apartments = lice spread more easily), of population growth (in Israel a significantly higher percent of the population is younger, ie, at higher risk of lice), of physical distance (lice can't pass between friends who are sitting two feet apart, but it can pass between friends who are hugging), of hair length (as other posters said, long hair (on girls) is the norm here), and even of hair type.
I'm not saying Israeli schools have a perfect policy re: lice, but enough with the blanket assumption that the scope of the problem is a direct result of how much people care. It's not that simple.
FTR, in my entire time in Israel I've met maybe one parent who doesn't care about lice. I have several kids and in each of their classes, parents seem to take lice eradication very seriously, and will coordinate to make sure we all check our kids' heads at the same time in order to get rid of it.
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Studious
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 3:48 am
| ora_43 wrote: | I really don't get why people are assuming Israelis don't take lice seriously. It feels like there's a strong undercurrent of talking as if Israelis are unkempt, lower-class people.
There are a lot of reasons why lice are more prevalent in some places than others. Climate is a big one but not the only one. There's also the question of whether lice are treatment resistant (most lice in Israel are), of family size and living conditions (more kids in smaller apartments = lice spread more easily), of population growth (in Israel a significantly higher percent of the population is younger, ie, at higher risk of lice), of physical distance (lice can't pass between friends who are sitting two feet apart, but it can pass between friends who are hugging), of hair length (as other posters said, long hair (on girls) is the norm here), and even of hair type.
I'm not saying Israeli schools have a perfect policy re: lice, but enough with the blanket assumption that the scope of the problem is a direct result of how much people care. It's not that simple.
FTR, in my entire time in Israel I've met maybe one parent who doesn't care about lice. I have several kids and in each of their classes, parents seem to take lice eradication very seriously, and will coordinate to make sure we all check our kids' heads at the same time in order to get rid of it. |
So how do you explain the fact that gans and schools do not have lice policies? That fact in itself shows that lice is not deemed a serious problem that should impede attending school. And beyond that, the lack of policy does allow for the easy spread of lice.
Israelis are not dirty or unkempt, but they do have much higher incidence of lice than people in the US.
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Iymnok
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 6:37 am
First of all use the Assy2000 comb.
Recently at the asifot horim the mothers have made firm comments on the lice problems and some have offered to assist others with the cleaning. Gannenets have written in the day kesher about the מכת השלישית and have given cards to be signed daily by the parents after the kid has been checked and is clean. The child gets a prize after 10 signatures.
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imasinger
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 6:50 am
IMO, the difference in the analogy is the practical part.
Vaccination works. 20 years ago, measles was all but eradicated. Today, even if people need to be checked and occasionally revaccinated, we still know that this works with great reliability.
However, the commercial chemical treatments for lice don't have anywhere near that kind of track record. Oils (I like tea tree) and combing are more effective.
So using them IS treatment. And the most practical, effective plan.
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watergirl
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 7:57 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I live in EY and lice is fairly common here among gan ages children. Parents are allowed to send their children to school with lice, and most parents are reasonable enough to alert the Gannenet when their kid has lice and to deal with the issue.
I don't like putting chemicals on my children's head. If lice carried diseases (they don't) then I would want to solve the problem ASAP, but they don't so I'm comfortable combing my children's hair thoroughly when they get infested and it's a two week long process until everyone's heads are clean again.
So I discovered yesterday my children and myself have lice. No problem, except we are going to a hotel with my very American and lice phobic in-laws. My MIL is very upset we aren't using a chemical treatment to deal with the issue and protect her from catching it. Also because now she won't be able to to enjoy her grandchildren as much.
I'm strongly provax, because science and protecting the immunocompromised and science. But I wonder if my refusal to use a chemical lice treatment on my kids puts me on par with antivaxers? Genuine question, not trolling.
I think the real difference is life threatening disease vs lice, but something is still bothering me... |
I agree with those who say you cant compare measles and lice. But on the other hand, lice is extremely contagious and you dont seem to be taking appropriate measures to prevent and treat it. When you use a removal method that takes 2 weeks(!!), you are making the choice to knowingly spread lice to others. Its a nuisance and a hassle and VERY uncomfortable! I've had it, my kids have had it, you scratch day and night, losing sleep, losing focus... why would you do that to your kids and to other people? You can chose not to use chemical treatment. But you should be able to remove the lice far faster than 2 weeks. By taking your time and just combing over the course of two weeks, you are knowingly spreading the bugs to others. You may not feel it is a big deal but who are you to make that call for others?
People have given you suggestions here for non-chemical removal techniques, I hope you listen to them and do some of your own research to treat and prevent. People swear by certain oils that you can put behind the ears which supposedly prevents the lice from coming. Once you have lice in your house, you need to spend the day removing it. Once you spend a full day with all it entails, you may understand why people want to avoid it in the first place. It should NOT take you 2 weeks to rid the family of lice. That is the irresponsible part, in my opinion.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 8:42 am
| watergirl wrote: | I agree with those who say you cant compare measles and lice. But on the other hand, lice is extremely contagious and you dont seem to be taking appropriate measures to prevent and treat it. When you use a removal method that takes 2 weeks(!!), you are making the choice to knowingly spread lice to others. Its a nuisance and a hassle and VERY uncomfortable! I've had it, my kids have had it, you scratch day and night, losing sleep, losing focus... why would you do that to your kids and to other people? You can chose not to use chemical treatment. But you should be able to remove the lice far faster than 2 weeks. By taking your time and just combing over the course of two weeks, you are knowingly spreading the bugs to others. You may not feel it is a big deal but who are you to make that call for others?
People have given you suggestions here for non-chemical removal techniques, I hope you listen to them and do some of your own research to treat and prevent. People swear by certain oils that you can put behind the ears which supposedly prevents the lice from coming. Once you have lice in your house, you need to spend the day removing it. Once you spend a full day with all it entails, you may understand why people want to avoid it in the first place. It should NOT take you 2 weeks to rid the family of lice. That is the irresponsible part, in my opinion. |
I do use preventative measures (rosemary shampoo, preventative combing with rosemary detangler). The two weeks is from catching the first lice until after all the nits hatch and I catch those too. I pick out the nits when I find them, but I never assume I've caught them all. My kids heads are clean after they've been combed... Until the next one hatches. So I comb every night for two weeks until I'm sure all of them have hatched.
MIL is managing. Still frustrated, but such is life.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 9:33 am
My DDs got lice from their Aunt who was working in a school, when they were little
Super annoying
I had to do chemical treatment so they’d be accepted back to school on time.
I treated before we came back home, but was super annoyed
I guess at least I didn’t have to treat the house, since we were away for 3 weeks, and they caught it from there.
Please don’t ruin others vacations.
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ora_43
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Wed, Apr 24 2019, 11:36 am
| Studious wrote: | So how do you explain the fact that gans and schools do not have lice policies? That fact in itself shows that lice is not deemed a serious problem that should impede attending school. And beyond that, the lack of policy does allow for the easy spread of lice.
Israelis are not dirty or unkempt, but they do have much higher incidence of lice than people in the US. |
Israeli gans and schools do have lice policies. It's just that the policy here is "if a child has lice, parents are informed so they can check their children and prevent it spreading," rather than, "if a child has lice, that child has to miss school until they are completely free of nits."
The CDC has recommended that American schools stop their "no nit" policies because they are ineffective and do more harm than they prevent.
So no, I don't think that the fact Israel hasn't implemented a bad and unhelpful policy means that this isn't seen as a serious problem.
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