Feeling little guilty

amother

Coffee

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 8:59 pm

I'm not previous amother but I stay home because that's what makes the most sense for me. With regards to this specific topic I am not getting involved in what op should have done. Just want to say I don't have the stamina others seem to have so I do things piecemeal. Everything didn't get put away motzi shabbos, not even close. I put away the milchig side on Sunday morning so that we could make milchigs and started the fleishig side. today I continued worked on the fleishig side. I also used plastic dishes...so there was less cleaning up to do. If I went someplace that insisted on using real dishes that needed to be washed... and and packing everything up the night of. Yes that would be hard for me.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 9:23 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I when your kids are MARRIED they are independent of your household and no longer beholden to you to do extensive chores.

what odd logic...if they are independent of the household then what are they doing spending pesach there ? does that mean the parents hosting are independent of their married kids and not beholden to them in terms of providing meals, a place at the table etc? so it would be perfectly ok for the mother to cook supper for all her single kids and tell her married kid- sorry- I didnt make any for you?

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 9:30 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

don't you understand that the nature of "being part of the family" is different after one gets married? no she will not be your "helper" daughter like she was single and you should learn to deal.

the mother should learn to "deal" if that married daughter doesnt grace her home with her presence which also brings along extra burden to host her. If the daughter decides to come then she needs to pull her own weight and not expect a break.

just curious- what happens if there is a family of 5 lets say. daughter 1 and 2 get married and are now exempt and are allowed to come for yom tov like family but dont need to help like family anymore which is fine cuz kids 3, 4, and 5 are the helpers and get almost everything done.

then kids 3 and 4 get married

are the mother and kid 5 supposed to host 1 2 3 and 4 without their help and take on the burden of hosting 4 families ?

then what happens when number 5 gets married? then who helps the mom? she should still just learn to "deal"?

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 9:37 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

How was it easier? Instead of helping pack up after pesach you had to do all the packing up yourself. And you still have little kids at home.

sounds like it was easier for her to work hard on her own terms, rather than have someone else expect her to work hard..its flawed logic but definitely human nature. we are fine doing something if it was our own idea, if someone else tells us to do it we balk.
honestly it is physically easier to submit to the elusive idea of control and just spend the 2 hours washing dishes in your mothers house, then spend the weeks and weeks doing the work yourself, but it takes a level of maturity to recognize that its not about the work- but rather the idea of control. doesnt sound like she reached that level yet. thats fine. let each one learn.

amother

Purple

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 9:37 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

According to coral all the five “mommy’s” should sit and do nothing because they’re so overwhelmed after all theyre working mothers. And mother hen should slave away because she has the honor to host her princesses. Oh and don’t forget about their dear husbands that need their privacy after spending 8 days in their Shvigers house.

I’m sorry, so fed up with these entitled kids.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 9:42 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

yep me too. im curious where each of the entitled ones fall within their families.

Mommyg8

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 10:08 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

It has nothing to do with where they fall in their families.

It’s the generation and getting worse and worse.

We were raise with a work ethic that sadly doesn’t exist anymore.

So I'm wondering who raised this "entitled" generation that you are referring to? If you are, as you imply, from the older generation, then perhaps it's time to take a look in the mirror.

Not that I think OP is entitled, or at least I have no way of knowing that from her post. It sounds like she went home motzei Shabbos so it makes sense that shed rather leave earlier rather than later. And we have no idea what she did over Yom Tov - for all you know she cooked all the food single handedly. She didn't say that she didn't help at all.

ETA: In general, when I see someone from the younger generation take care of themselves (not they all do, so many young women are falling apart these days) I always say - good for them! I wish I would have had the sechel to do that when I was younger.

ectomorph

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 10:20 pm

Honestly, I sympathize w op. Every year I feel forced to spend yt with family for various reasons. It's extremely stressful, I don't like the food, and then I have to be grateful for the hosting.
Edit: I do enjoy the time w family. It's not all bad. But if I could make it at home without upsetting a lot of ppl, I totally would.

A relative just invited us for Shavuos. I told my husband we can't go unless they agree in advance that I can nurse in public and they'll help me with my toddlers.

Bh, the toddlers and baby stage will soon pass, and then hopefully my kids will help, but right now I just need stability or a lot of help.

Last edited by ectomorph on Mon, Apr 29 2019, 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mommyg8

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 10:20 pm

mig100 wrote:

Well said. That's my opinion too.

Though it doesn't seem to be a very popular one.

Oh well add to my long list of unpopular opinions.

And I'm saying this having been a "younger unmarried sibling" for many years. That's how I felt then and that's what I'd feel if I was the mother hosting- its possible I may change my mind by then - though I highly doubt it.

I guess in a few years we can confirm that Smile

I'm just reading through this thread... thank you for agreeing with me.

I'm not saying that no-one should help, ever, but what I am saying is that expectations should really depend on circumstances, and yes, it does make a difference that her mother doesn't work and she works full time (with two little kids). A normal mother makes allowances for these kind of things - and she should. But a normal mother also wants that token of offer to help, of appreciation for the hard work that she did, so I think that OP should definitely have tried to communicate with her mother before, and if not, apologize now. Life is always about balance, rarely is an issue or situation black and white.

Mommyg8

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 10:32 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

So it was easier for you to: (1) clean your own home, top to bottom; purchase all of your own food, at your own cost; cook every meal on your own, and clean up afterwards; box up all of your own things afterwards; and put everything away, that to (2) spend an hour or two helping your mother put stuff away after the holiday.

I don't get it, but good for you.

Um..yes. One year both sides were unable to host us so we stayed home. We had four little children at the time. I was actually surprised how easy it was.

First of all, we always cleaned our home, since we were newlyweds, from top to bottom as we always went home chol hamoad (and we don't sell chometz gamur). So the only difference was that we had to kasher our kitchen, which again, in our tiny kitchen, was surprisingly easy.

Cooking for the two of us and four little ones was pretty easy as well. Some gefilte fish, four bottoms, a pot of potatoes, some cut up vegetables and we were good to go!

And my kids were in their own beds, we were able to make our own schedule, and it really was just so much easier than packing and shlepping and driving and figuring out how to keep your little baby from crying so she shouldn't wake up great aunt Malka.

For a vacation, you go to a hotel.

amother

Natural

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:06 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I think your mom should not have expectations of a married woman with kids! You have your hands full packing, unpacking, dealing with your kids in someone elses house, sleeping in one room etc. It is a lot harder to shlep out to parents than sleep in your own house etc and on your own schedule. You cleaned your room, you stripped your linen, hopefully you helped clear a bit etc so why should she expect you to stay late to clean when she has 6 single daughters? There is also a husband in the picture who may need space and privacy after a long YT and may need his own house and it can be very annoying to spend hours on Motzei YT for him, cleaning your mothers house.I dont agree with above posters.

are you for real?? wow!! you have got to be kidding. what entitlement!!

amother

Purple

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:14 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

No, I did not raise them. My oldest is still in elementary school.

I do deal with a lot of young married women and yes, I find them to feel very entitled. I know I’m technically a millennial myself; but I definitely don’t act like one.

amother

Natural

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:22 pm

obviously this depends on each family dynamics and situation. did the mother invite her for 8 days or did she invite herself for all of YT? did she help before and during yom tov? do her siblings that helped pack up resentful or happy to do it? is the mother happy or resentful? did her mother prefer she leave with her LO or that she help out a bit? (why are ladies saying she had to stay till 1am, pitching in for an hour or so might have sufficed).

aside from all that, the way I see it, helping after a YT (especially one like pesach where the work and the efforts are so great on the host/hostesses) should be a given not out of "oh she can or can't manage it without me" but rather our of appreciation and showing that you want to help in any way you can. out of gratitude and being a part of the family. your parents don't owe you anything and they don't have to host/feed you for an extended vacation so out of gratitude one should do whatever they can to help out.

-signed by an oldest child who appreciates her parents.

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:30 pm

A few points people are forgetting. There are many parents that WANT their kids to come over and ARE VERY READY TO ACCOMMODATE THEM. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!! If a parent wants their kids over and can't accommodate their needs we will devote a whole thread to their dillema 😃 We usually go to my parents for second days but this year we stayed home all pesach and I knew my parents would miss us so we came in for one full day of chol hamoed. Yes. Parents actually like their kids company! (That's what I thought but.maybe my parents are the exception) and some wonderful children are ready to pack up their families, be in a different home, accommodate their hosts mishagassen, keep their kids quiet at 6:00 am so everyone else can sleep, clean up constantly after their kids even though at home they only clean up at night etc... you get the picture.

Next point. Clearly this OP has a young mother. If someone has an older mother who has NO help anymore at home then usually there are already teenage grandchildren that will go and help out before Yom tov. Often families are not coming to them anymore because the families are too large, and they don't have energy to host. When I was a kid I and many cousins would go over and help my grandparents who were in their low 70's. I would also go over by myself for some seudos so my grandparents would have company. When my mother had 8 children one after the other I don't think she was helping her mother out much. But I wouldn't remeber😀

My point is don't judge. Some people have more energy than others. If you don't want to host your child because they can't help you enough then don't host them. But who are you to peer into their soul and call them selfish. Tell them it's too hard to host under these conditions.

amother

Natural

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:41 pm

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

why is it a contradiction that your parents enjoy hosting you to showing appreciation and helping out after yt?
and do we really only go thru the hassle of moving out of our homes and pack up just to give our parents nachas or also because we don't mind getting away with making YT ourselves?
you're other points I agree with, the keeping kids quiet all morning and all afternoon when people nap, cleaning up constantly.... it's tough but if someone makes the decision to go to their parents they know what it entails and they probably realize that coming and "accommodate their hosts mishagassen" is easier than making YT. so what does it take to help out for an hour or so just to show you're not a selfish person that's just here to take??

amother

Natural

Mon, Apr 29 2019, 11:51 pm

just want to add, my posts are not in reply to the OP's question just my very strong opinion in this matter. it's not about judging or calling people selfish but rather how I feel young ones like myself should act when being hosted.

I'm curious, if a family friend or aunt hosted a family would they also feel like they can just pack up and go or would they then yes feel like staying and helping out a bit?

amother

Mustard

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 1:32 am

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

The way it worked in my family was the by the time number 5+ got married, the oldest (me) didn't have such young kids anymore and was able to help much more.

IMHO, people have different abilities to help out at different points in their lives, and I would hope that family members would be understanding of that. Of course, if people have an attitude that "Oh, now I am married, I don't have to help anymore" or other similarly entitled attitudes, that is wrong. Everyone can contribute something and should do so to the best of his/her ability. Also, everyone can and should express gratitude for whatever anyone else in the family does for them. But, as long as people are contributing what they can and being grateful to others, I would hope family members would be understanding of each other's limitations at particular stages of life.

I went through times when my ability to contribute was more limited (after birth, taking care of toddlers, going through some really heavy and difficult life challenges which made even getting out of bed in the morning a struggle, etc.) Now I am at a different point and am able to contribute much more, and my doing so helps out the same family members who came through for me when I needed it and who at this point in their lives are not able to contribute as much as they did in the past.