Gave the mmr today

karat

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:04 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

basically the exemption is being abused.

No, it’s not.
I looked up the explanation of a religious exemption.
It says outright that it’s a broad term and can include personal beliefs.
They can be denied during outbreaks.
(I do vaccinate so don’t throw anything at me).

Laiya

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:05 pm

MiracleMama wrote:

Out of line. And I happen to agree with her.

How is it ok to do whatever you want with your child behind the father's back?

What if it were the opposite? What if a mother was pretending to give vaccinations because father thought it was important but she was secretly anti-vax and hiding it from her husband?

Uh-uh. Parents need to figure it out together and be on the same page.

Here's a different scenario. Several years ago, there was a case where the parents were ~~Christian Scientists~~ 7th Day Adventists who refused to give their daughter cancer treatments, and she died. The parents were investigated for child neglect.

If a mother wanted to go behind her dh's back to take dc for cancer treatments, but dh wanted to stick with vitamins and herbs, would you still feel that sneaking dc off for treatments is wrong?

There are times when going behind a spouse's back is morally the right thing to do.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:17 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

I know that and the fact that they insist on saying it over and over again to scare people raises some questions. An adverse reaction which occurs within 48 hours of a vaccine is generally dismissed as correlation, not causation. A condition that pops up about 10 years after having the measles is a direct result of the virus. Hmmm..

Time is not a factor when discussing causation. When scientists aren't able to connect A to B directly, they lack the proof that A causes B. But when they are able to make a direct connection, they have the proof they need. Time is of no consequence. Sometimes effects are seen immediately and sometimes years later. Take shingles for example. It is caused by the chickenpox virus, and it appears decades later. Take soaking up UV sun rays for another example. The damage appears decades later as well.

So now with your example, scientists don't have the evidence that the vaccine caused that adverse reaction, but they do have the evidence that a specific encephalitis is connected to measles. And they give you the information that is currently known. There's no larger plan in the picture to mess with people.

amother

Pearl

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:26 pm

karat wrote:

Oh good - thanks for looking into it. That makes much more sense to me actually.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:29 pm

Laiya wrote:

Hey, I'm a staunch vaxxer, but this comparison is unfair. We're not talking about treating someone with a deadly disease, we're discussing how to give a child immunity against a specific disease. The mother's preference is the vaccine, and the father's preference is having the child contract the disease to gain immunity. (Both have the child's best medical interest in mind, no religious or other aspects in play here.)

Of course the father is in the wrong here, but I'm not sure it warrants going behind his back. They're two adults and they can discuss it together, and the wife can do what it takes to insist that she gets her way this time around (especially in light of the current outbreak).

amother

Mauve

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:32 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

The pediatrician told me that the MMR is the most painful shot since it all goes into the skin and not into the muscle.
Also, my baby had her shot two weeks ago and didn't get any fever etc. as I predicted (it usually happens around 10 days or so as it takes time to incubate as opposed to other shots where the fever happens right away)

I just got it recently. It does burn, but it's over in 2 seconds. I wouldn't even remember if not for the dr asking me out of curiosity whether it hurts.

The fever is a sign that your body is building up immunity, that's why they say it takes about 2 weeks until you're protected

Laiya

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:42 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Regardless of the situation, if there exists one situation where it's appropriate to go behind a spouse's back, then one can't argue that it's NEVER ok, which is the post I was responding to.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, May 01 2019, 4:45 pm

Laiya wrote:

Regardless of the situation, if there exists one situation where it's appropriate to go behind a spouse's back, then one can't argue that it's NEVER ok, which is the post I was responding to.

I assume that most people understand that NEVER wouldn't include life and death situations.

ora_43

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:02 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

cdc states before 1963 vaccine, estimated 3 to 4 million cases of measles in US each year. 450-500 deaths each year. do the math. round it to highest possible number 500/3,000,000 = 1/6000. take middle of each 475/3,500,000= approx 1/7300 deaths.

my febrile seizure numbers come from WHO. many kids stay with the seizures for life. I know of a kid who died due to a seizure in his sleep and seizures were a result of mmr. seizures IS A SIGNIFICANT adverse reaction.

How about we do the math using the full set of numbers?

3-4 million is an estimate of the number of people who might in theory have been sick with measles, because there's no way for the CDC to know how many people got a fever for a few days and never realized it was measles.

The number of known measles cases was around 500,000. 500/50,000 = 1/1,000. No, using only known cases won't give perfectly accurate statistics, but it's a lot better than statistics based on wild guessing.

Also, you are comparing seizures to death, seriously?? Compare apples to apples. If you consider febrile seizures serious, fine! Completely normal measles, without complications, often causes fever of 40C or higher. Twenty-five percent of kids who get measles end up needing to be hospitalized. Before the MMR measles was one of the common causes of febrile seizures.

In other words, if you're afraid of febrile seizure, risking the actual measles over the 4/10,000 risk of the vaccine is not very smart.

ora_43

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:11 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Why unfair?

The parents of the child who died of cancer also had different opinions about how to cure a child of a specific disease. The doctor thought she needed medical care, but they thought they should pray for her.

It's an extreme example, and it's meant to be, but the point it makes is a good one - at some point, a parent's opinion on their child's medical needs is no longer valid. And at some point, dishonesty by one spouse is the better-case scenario.

On a not-unrelated note, allowing a child to get sick is not "immunization," it's the thing that immunization is designed to prevent.

amother

Seashell

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:12 pm

Laiya wrote:

You're comparing an adverse effect of the vaccine to death from the disease. Why not compare adverse effect of the vaccine to adverse effects of the disease?

because the poster I was replying to was the one who compared them first. she said it's more likely to die from measles than to suffer an adverse reaction from a vaccine. I called her out on it and presented relevant statistics.

esuss

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:16 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

A religious exemption is based on psukim in Torah, v'nishmartem etc. it's a personal belief meaning that you dont need a rabbi or an orgainzed group to sign off on it. it says what I believe personally based on my religion, the torah.

Those are the same pesukim from the Torah that Gedolei Haposkim based their psak on that you HAVE to vaccinate. How do you translate it wrongly against them?!

nchr

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:17 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

It is more likely for an unvaccinated individual to die of the measles in an area where measles is endemic than to have a true adverse reaction to a vaccine.