Please guard your children

Israeli_C

Fri, May 03 2019, 5:47 am

Rappel wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. I just edited a lot of the words - let's see if it's filter-proof now.

Oooh many thanks! Also very informative!! I'd love to report the place again, it's been there for years and nobody's doing anything about it. I wish I could remember the 'polite' word for a br0thel in Hebrew - the only one I know is a Beit Z0not but DH told me never to use this when talking... to anyone!!

Israeli_C

Fri, May 03 2019, 6:19 am

Rappel wrote:

I've heard the phrase used - "beit boshet" בית בו-שת. I don't know if that's the common term. It's not a topic which usually comes up in discussion.

That's the one! It helps to see it written down! For some reason I had in my head תחמושת and knew it was definitely NOT that one! BH it isn't a word for day to day chatter! Lol reminds me of my Israeli neighbour when I moved and complained to him about what was going on beside us in our old apartment he replied "my brother lives in the States. There, the police know how to deal with troublemakers. One phone call and they would have broke in the door, shot everyone there and then start asking the questions! Like it should be!!!" I didn't really agree with his sentiments, but he does seem to think that in the US they get the job done!

paperflowers

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:04 am

thunderstorm wrote:

Fourty years ago my mother used to do this in Brooklyn while she shopped and shmoozed inside the store. One day a woman that knew her from the neighborhood saw my brother in the stroller and she was so upset that she took the stroller and walked around the square block with my brother . When my mother came out of the store and saw that the stroller was no longer there she got hysterical. Two minutes later that woman arrived with the stroller and my brother who was literally a few months old. She told my mother that the only way she'd learn not to do that again was by scaring the wits out of her . Believe it or not they became very good friends after that and my mother always tells people that story. She learned her lesson.

So basically you’re brother was completely safe except for this woman who thought he wasn’t.

amother

Blonde

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:12 am

What kind of neighborhoods do y'all live in that have brothels in them?

And several brothels in ONE frum Jewish neighborhood? I'm aghast. This means there is good business there.

And to the poster in Israel who lived near a brothel - I've lived in many different cities in Israel, and you don't usually find a brothel in a respectable neighborhood. I would do all it took to move my kids out of that kind of area.

ora_43

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:43 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

What kind of neighborhoods do y'all live in that have brothels in them?

Mostly lower-middle-class.

Quote:

And several brothels in ONE frum Jewish neighborhood? I'm aghast. This means there is good business there.

There are frum men who go to brothels.

But also, "the Jewish area" doesn't mean "the area where 100% of people are frum Jews." In a big city, a single neighborhood can easily have 50,000 people. And most brothels are small operations.

So if you think about it, we're not talking about a situation where prostitution is considered normal - if 0.5% of men pay someone for s-x at an average of once a week, that's enough to keep dozens of brothels going. Even if the other 99.5% would never.

Quote:

And to the poster in Israel who lived near a brothel - I've lived in many different cities in Israel, and you don't usually find a brothel in a respectable neighborhood. I would do all it took to move my kids out of that kind of area.

Lots of frum people in Israel live outside respectable neighborhoods. What can you do, housing is expensive.

But also - is Pisgat Ze'ev in Jerusalem not a respectable neighborhood? What about Katamon? Neve Shaanan in Haifa?

Police have found brothels in plenty of normal, middle class neighborhoods. Again, I'm not saying it's normal - but it only takes a fairly small number of people (both staff and clients) to keep a brothel going.

amother

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:47 am

sky wrote:

It does sound like you judge, some is not safe and some is just judgy of parenting choices. Why are no shoes bad parenting? I love feel of dirt and grass on my feet and go in my backyard barefoot (with only women over) or run to a neighbors home without shoes. It’s not something I hover over my kids with. They also do it. Just tonight my son was composting and stepped on sharp stone barefoot. It hurt him enough to share it with me, but not enough that he will wear shoes next time. It’s his choice to learn.

It's one thing if you allow it and another if you don't know that it's happening and there is glass or rusty nails around etc...I do not walk around judging ppl. But if you happen to be the mother who is outside for about two hours at least every day you start noticing things. And because it is rampant enough I figured that there may be a lot of ppl unaware that they should even be outside watching their kids bec like I said they taught their kids how to cross...It wasn't a joke. I was serious. I'm not talking dysfunctional families here. I think this is a gross oversight by many caring and loving parents. I just wanted ppl to know that just because you taught therm right it doesn't mean they are doing ok. Unless you supervise frequently you don't know that they are being safe ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN STANDARDS. I hope that clarifies.

amother

Tan

Fri, May 03 2019, 7:56 am

I think there’s been a lot of talk and research on this recently. I do think young children let’s say under 6 do need to be watched but in safe neighborhoods in groups there has been lots written about the value of giving your children independence. I know people will say kidnapping or whatever. But statistically your kids are morel likely to be molested by their babysitter/teacher/uncle than kidnapped by a stranger.

ora_43

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:11 am

I agree and disagree, OP.

On the one hand, yes, I've seen a lot of kids whose behavior outside, unsupervised, leaves a lot to be desired. And in most cases I'm sure the parents didn't dream that their sweet, clever child would run into the road/ bully smaller kids on the playground/ throw rocks/ etc.

I do think it's strange that when it comes to the question of letting kids play outside unsupervised, so many people focus on the absolute worst case scenario - that 1 in however many 10,000s odds of a stranger kidnapping - and ignore the more mundane, incredibly likely dangers, like kids being unsafe around traffic or bullying or being bullied.

On the other hand -

it's not like the choice, for most parents, is "should I supervise my kids, or should I sit here and do nothing?"

Let's say dad's at work and mom is doing paid work from home, with a deadline looming that evening. Or mom is at work and dad has to make dinner. And the kids are bouncing off the walls and begging to be allowed to go play in the park right across the street.

At some point, it's fine for parents to decide they'd rather take that 10% risk that their kid is going to be poorly behaved outside, over the 100% risk that the child will be bored and unhappy inside.

(Occasional supervision to check in on kids' behavior is good, but the problem is that kids - especially older kids - are usually smart enough to behave nicely when they know that their parents or other relatives are watching, even if they are horrible brats around strangers)

Israeli_C

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:16 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

And to the poster in Israel who lived near a br0thel - I've lived in many different cities in Israel, and you don't usually find a br0thel in a respectable neighborhood. I would do all it took to move my kids out of that kind of area.

Clearly you don't know much about Israel. I live in a very respectable neighbourhood (secular, middle class) in the merkaz and DH works in hi-tech which is the only reason why we can even afford to be here. And business was brisk there. They're everywhere. Especially in the merkaz.

Aylat

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:17 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

This whole brothel in family oriented neighborhoods conversation is literally making me feel like I have to throw up. I went to seminary for a year, and lived in Eretz Yisrael for a short time after marriage, and I NEVER heard of such a thing. And we are seriously considering Aliyah right now, why oh why did I have to read this right now?

I've lived in Israel for the last 6+ years, as well as a few years here for seminary and after - I have never ever encountered this. Not saying amothers are making it up, but it's definitely not common.

Rappel

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:34 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

I haven't come across it yet, and I made Aliyah 5 years ago. In the Wikipedia article I cited before, it said that 69 percent of brothels in Israel are in the Merkaz. So I guess it depends on where you spend your time. I don't think it's ordinary for such a thing to be in a religious neighborhood or town, either.

FranticFrummie

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:36 am

In Israel, the illegal brothels are pretty much all controlled by the Russian mafia. There's a lot of corrupt cops getting paid to look the other way.

Still, it's stupid for brothels to be obvious. If they were smart, they'd keep the outside appearances normal and quiet, and do their business on the down low.

Prost!tution is the world's oldest profession, after all.

Personally, I'd be much more concerned about drug dealers and living near "party spots" where kids could come across dirty needles and such.

DD and her dad live in Oregon. DD tells me there is a meth lab across the street, and the guy upstairs smokes so much pot that it makes her asthma flare up. She has to sleep with the windows open all the time - which isn't exactly safe either, because she's on the ground floor.

She refuses to take the bus, because several of her friends have been groped on that particular route. She has to be driven everywhere that is outside of walking distance.

She's become extremely wary and street savvy about things a kid should never have to know about.

Aylat

Fri, May 03 2019, 8:39 am

ora_43 wrote:

I very much agree with this post. 2 points to add.

It's not just the '10% chance against the 100% of boredom', for me it's an active encouragement of, yes, meet up with your friends to play football, cycle outside, go to the park with your brothers, because those are healthy activities which my kids would be able to engage in a lot less if they were only allowed to do them while I was physically present.

In terms of negative behaviour, I really appreciate feedback from other adults who encounter my kids doing something unsafe c'v or negative when I am not around. This can only work in a relatively close-knit community where people know each other, but I am fortunate to live somewhere like that. I always follow-up with my kids when someone tells me something like that.