S/o of s/o. We backpaid DH tuition

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:18 pm

I have never spoken about this before. I think if my parents found out about this there is no way they wouldnt have bad feeling toward my inlaws. Thanks imamother for giving me a place to air this Smile

... anonymously Wink

When dh and I were married 14 months my husband decided it was time to leave kollel and start college in pursuit of his doctorate. He needed his high school transripts as well as his transcrips from the mir in EY and the yeshiva he attended post EY (he also wanted any transferable credits transfered). All 3 yeshivos told him the same thing, you have a tuition balance and we cant release anything until your tuition is paid for in full. This story infuriated me and heres a bit of the backstory as to why ..

I was raised as a child thinking we were poor. The words "we cant afford..." were a frequent part of my childhood. I babysat and worked summers most of my life and saved and saved. Any social outting with friends were of course paid for by me as well as anything my mother deemed "unnecessary" I always had a very strong work ethic (maybe nature maybe nuture). I got married after 3 years in shidduchim, 4 years out of hs with just short of $150k in savings.
I look back and laugh at the fact I thought we were poor.. for one my mom never worked, also I grew up in a house my parents build (simple but a nice size) when they were telling us they couldnt afford things it was very relative. They wanted to be able to marry their children off headache free. And as far as I know they have never had debt (aside from a mortgage). We never once took a family vacation. We had takeout once a year before pesach and it was pizza not fleishig, we got simple birthday presents all of out lives and were expected to outgrow presents by about the age of 10. And I got married in the cheapest hall "takana style"

My husband was raised with both parents in chinuch but wealthy grandparents on each side. He also grew up thinking he was poor (it effected him negatively much more than it effected me)
His grandparents were war survivors and spoiled his parents by buying them a nice house in the expensive neighborhood (with plently of Joneses to keep up with) in the the city my inlaws live it. They would also come to the rescue anytime my inlaws couldnt pay their bills. This gave my inlaws the impression that they can live out of their means and itll always be "taken care of"
My husband has very fond childhood memories of lavish vacations, toys every erev shabbos etc. My sisters in law all went to seminary in EY and all got married in expensive high end venues. (I still remember they made a comment about my parents making me a "simple" wedding as if it was below their standards)
By the time I married into the family all the grandparents were gone and my inlaws were really struggling. My husband told me his parents arent well off while we were engaged. I was happy. My parents were simple and I didnt want high standards. During sheva brachos I went to exchange a piece of jewlery that my husband gave me in the yichud room, the jewler told me it wasn't paid for. I told him I dont want to exchange it just return it and I left. When I was married 3 months my husband took in into his hands to make sure his parents house didnt go into forclosure (apparently he knew they werent paying the mortgage)
Even after all this I was very sympathetic. Good people, bad circumstances.
But 14 months in when the tuition story popped up it really set me over the edge. I thought it was just downright irresponsible and negligent. I dont know that I have the answers but I know my inlaws arent very confrontational and probably just ignored their tuition bills. At least maybe they could have set up some sort of payment plan..?
Anyway I cant change anyone but myself. They are wonderful people and other than their terrible money management skills they are amazing to me my husband and my children .
Considering we knew there was no way we could ask my inlaws to pay the tuition we had no choice but to pay it off.
Although it still bothers me a little I try to remember that people are given challenges for a reason and even thou it was very upsetting back then I want to believe that it served as a kappah...

thunderstorm

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:24 pm

I'm sorry you went through this and I'm impressed with your attitude about it. May HaShem repay you for not making machlokes over this.

amother

Navy

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:26 pm

Oh my gosh I really needed to read this post right now. We are in a similar position as your in laws and I did not realize the extent of how much we can screw up our kids if we keep ignoring Bill's like tuition, orthodontist, etc. We aren't irresponsible, we just have no clue how to manage money. It disappears before it even gets here and I know for a fact people live on less money than we do with more kids and are making it financially. We owe all our unmarried kids money, even the 10 yr old. How will we ever get out of this cycle?
Thanks for posting, OP.

amother

Brunette

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:31 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

How do you owe your ten year old money?

baby12x

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:34 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

You can do it!!!
Step 1 is make a budget
Stick to it

Bills are priority. They get paid first. You should be deciding where the money goes BEFORE you even get paid.
I write a personal finance blog and here are some links: if you leave comments on the posts I'll respond and try to give you some advice

https://adimesaved.com/basic-g.....nance

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:37 pm

Amother navy- there is an organization that helps people like you learn to balance their budgets. Does anyone know the name of it ?

devorah1231

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:45 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

If you would like some help budgeting, PM me and I can send you some spreadsheets and other ideas for budgeting. Good luck!

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:51 pm

I'm not really sure why you are so upset.

So... We are in a similar situation as your in-laws. We owe tuition money to some of our kids schools. We live in a "better" neighborhood.... paid for by my parents. BUT, our tuition bill last year, for seven kids, was about $60,000, after scholarships. Our gross salary last year was about $95,000. You do the math. It's obvious that we simply can't pay all the tuitions, and some schools are not getting the money. Any money we do have is prioritized for schools that my kids are currently in, that's just the reality. So we owe money to schools that my kids have already left.

If you'll explain to me how it became a crime to "only" make a decent middle class income? We're not criminals, my dh and I both work. So what did your in-laws do wrong exactly?

ETA: We did set up a payment plan with one school when my child approached us for his high school diploma. But it took us some time to pay, it didn't happen overnight.

causemommysaid

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother navy- there is an organization that helps people like you learn to balance their budgets. Does anyone know the name of it ?

Mesilla

ra_mom

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:54 pm

I am so sorry - that is awful!
My friend went through this when she needed her diploma for higher education. She was very upset at the school because the balance was not her responsibility.

Last edited by ra_mom on Sun, May 05 2019, 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

facebooknyny

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother navy- there is an organization that helps people like you learn to balance their budgets. Does anyone know the name of it ?

Is it Mesilah ?
Edit : Sorry I see someone already answered

Last edited by facebooknyny on Sun, May 05 2019, 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Cyan

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:55 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother navy- there is an organization that helps people like you learn to balance their budgets. Does anyone know the name of it ?

I'm assuming u r referring to Mesila.
https://www.mesila.org/en/home-mesila/

doctorima

Sun, May 05 2019, 12:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother navy- there is an organization that helps people like you learn to balance their budgets. Does anyone know the name of it ?

I believe you're referring to Mesila

amother

Pearl

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:00 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Please be in touch with mesilla, and read up Dave Ramsey style management- be weird so that you can afford to not live this way anymore iyh. It’s up to u and u can change one step at a time.

To the OP- literally SAME! (+some other unsavory elements, they upgraded things in the wedding and then didn’t pay for them, creating huge problems with my parents that were left to foot the bill)
I actually went to therapy to process the anger/ frustration I had with them and put it behind me. It’s not up to me to be mechanech them and it’s important for both me and my husband to have a relationship with them.

My husband has standards I wouldn’t dream of because his parents were never financially responsible, we had to make a payment plan with the mir etc. that as of now gets paid from my savings. I insisted, my husband wanted to push it off but I told him when I heard about all of this that I understand this was normal for him but I can’t live as a Baal chov and it’s a huge priority for me- I think seeing how my parents live also really made an impact on him. They are Bh comfortable but spending is just level headed and responsible. They didn’t make a takkana wedding but they had a budget and didn’t go crazy buying a million things (Shaitel’s for the whole family and 10k on gowns like his parents did) and no one felt deprived by a long shot.

I don’t know if this is a struggle for you- it sounds like ur dh is bh not in that place. For me/ us it’s a difficult balance of trusting him with finances v. His crazy upbringing/ money management not coming naturally to him. We haven’t quite figured it out yet.

amother

Amber

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:01 pm

I used to be very judgmental of my parents (some may say justifiably so), until I got to the opposite side of the game of life.
Now I have young adults who air their grievances at my parenting.
My perspective is different now and I understand that parents are flawed human beings.
As children we subconsciously expect perfection from our parents.
We are all imperfect individuals and make mistakes.
But we all (hopefully) try our best.

Anyways, if you are looking for ways to be DLKZ, your in-laws may have forgotten about their debt.
I believe my father did and when he passed away and we received a small sum of money from a life insurance policy, a school informed us a past-due tuition balance and we paid it out of the life insurance proceeds.

ectomorph

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:01 pm

Yeshivot have been closing this loophole since they found that if they allowed tuition to be delayed they never got it.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:04 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I'm not really sure why you are so upset.
...

ETA: We did set up a payment plan with one school when my child approached us for his high school diploma. But it took us some time to pay, it didn't happen overnight.

I hope it didnt come across that im "so" upset. Bh im not and I dont hold a grudge. My husband was raised very comfortably. My only complaint was the lack of prioriting, made 100 times worse by the fact that I was raised on very little so that my parents could pay our tuitions, dental bills, health insurance etc ..

amother

Amber

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:10 pm

I just want to add that yeshivas and school sometimess make errors and forget or refuse to write off paid-up balances.

A HS my daughter graduated from a few years still insists I have a tuition balance.
They also say they will refuse to issue a transcript.
I told the administrator that I have a receipt to prove that the balance was paid off and he did not believe me.
I asked him if he is accusing me of being a liar and he basically said yes.
Other than holding the receipt as proof I also have my daughter's HS diploma which the school would not have released had I not paid up the tuition balance in full.

notshanarishona

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:17 pm

There is nothing wrong with making a payment plan and taking 5 - 10 years to pay off your child's tuition. There is something very wrong about just ignoring the issue and not paying , that is called stealing.

amother

Slategray

Sun, May 05 2019, 1:19 pm

Dh and I are paying our tuition agreements, but only by running up credit card bills. We feel very squeezed, and it makes no financial sense to pay interest and all those credit card fees. But it's either that or we're in trouble with the schools.