S/o of s/o. We backpaid DH tuition

amother

Pearl

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:34 pm

Can the yeshiva ppl start a spinoff please?

I’m shocked at how common this (the original phenomenon discussed, marrying and then carrying debts from husband’s parents is). I’m curious if it ever happens in the reverse or if the fathers just figure the men can deal with it the way they struggled with parnassah but wouldn’t do it with a daughter?

My mil also doesn’t know, and she is a most difficult woman who will often ask me why we don’t vacation more or join them on a trip etc and I’m just dying to say cuz we are busy paying up debts and trying to budget with the (in some ways) super indulged Man U raised ?!

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:34 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

You seem to be talking about a structured post high school program. I was talking about a post high school boy, or any man, who uses a community bais medrash (such as ner yisrael Baltimore, or chaim berlin in brooklyn) as place to learn. You can easily find someone to learn with. My bil, in the post u quoted, doesnt tell people he learns in the kollel-he writes that he has a chavrusa for 2nd seder. There's no genaivas daas--shuls and batai medrash are made for this reason.

But even with the post hs program, surely you can understand that the starting point of tuition would be less without room and board? I went to a local seminary that had a dorm option. The starting points of full tuition were quite different than the dorm girls'.

Yes, I'm talking about a structured post-high school program, which in our yeshivos start in 12th grade (12th grade is considered bais medrash because the yeshivas I know finish their English education in 11th grade). Maybe there are some super mature boys or geniuses who are ready to learn on their own at that age but my boys went to a yeshivah that had a shiur. Torah Temimah, Torah Vdaas, and Chaim Berlin and similar yeshivos all follow that structure. Not saying that's where my sons learned, but they were in similar yeshivos.

As for room and board - it may cost the yeshivah more, and probably does, but we always paid close to the same price. In any case, in the bais medrashes my sons went to they did not allow the option of living at home. I wish! (Maybe it's because they got FAFSA etc? Honestly don't remember).

Just asked DH:

He said that if you walk into BMG and try that they will chase you out in 30 seconds.

And he said that there is no such thing as a bochur (not a balabas or yungrrman, a bochur) to sit down in one of these yeshivos and start learning. There is no such thing.

I don't think forestgreen is lying, but she IS missing a HUGE piece here. There is A LOT more to the story. Sorry.

ETA ETA: My DH says that BMG has a work study program. Just to let you know it exists. But BMG is not post high school.

amother

cornflower

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:59 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Bmg has different groups that use the varies Beis medrish so you could fly under the radar. But when my DH started working part time he was told he could no longer continue where he was and even though he was learning enough hours and varied courses to still be a student legally and therefore covered under his parents insurance the yeshiva refused to sign his papers. And his parents have big pull.
It’s not so simple.

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, May 05 2019, 10:24 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

If you can't tell me a name then I don't believe you. I have never ever heard of this and I'm sure it's just as unethical as not paying tuition (which I mentioned countless times I DID pay, but whatever...) . And where in the world would the boy fi nd chavrusos from, and I'm guessing he's not going to shiur - so how is he learning on his own? The whole thing does not make any sense at all, it sounds like someone told you a bubbah maysah.

Um this is a super common thing in yeshiva in israel as well. Even the really expensive ones. You don't really sound like you care to find out or do anything to make it work. Life is hard. Being poor is hard. Too bad. Dont force your children to pay for your choices

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 10:31 pm

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

I have no idea if it's super common in Israel, it's definitely not done, forget about common, in America.

And I have no idea what gave you the idea that my children will ever have to pay for anything. As someone mentioned upthread, the boy can get a GED. Can go to college on his own (and likely pay four times the amount that he would have to pay the yeshivah, but why confuse you with facts?) And get a college degree on his own. Noones forcing him to get the yeshivah credits.

And I'm sorry, but in no other culture is it normal for parents to pay for their children's college degree unless they are wealthy. Or private school for multiple children, for that matter.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, May 05 2019, 11:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes I dont know how to explain it but I felt poor. I guess hearing " we cant afford that" all the time can do that to you. Like I said I look back and laugh. Of course I see now how well taken care of I was but when your a child your perspective is very limited and the only people you have to compare to are the people im your daled amos. Of course as an adult I know what real poverty is a my parents are rich in comparison...
No seminary, no college. Mother said "its not necessary "

Op I totally COMPLETELY understand
. It's hard to explain to someone who never experienced such circumstances

I unfortunately know too well what u mean. My parents were able to afford full tuitions and many other large expenses. They'd probably be considered upper middle class. Yet many of siblings thought we were " poor".

It's very bothersome that we were tortured like this when it was completely not neccessary.

Purpleandgold- GREAT POST and something I've thought about a LOT for many years.

Op - again I want to emphasize my TROMENDOUS RESPECT for U. I AM IN AWE. U TOOK THE HIGHROAD!!

I'M NOT JUDGING UR ILLS- I HAVE NO IDEA what circumstances forced them.to.make the decisions they made - I-feel.bad this thread got so sidetracked.

However u slice it - they put u in ! difficult situation and u took the high road!!!

mig100

Sun, May 05 2019, 11:44 pm

PurpleandGold wrote:

, Thank you so much for your answer. I think it's important for everyone to take note, how children view their life has a LOT to do with how it is presented to them. If parents constantly explain to their children that they are receiving things the average gentile could never dream of affording, like a private school education, summer camp, etc, they will have a better impression of how privileged they are. Simple changes to wording are very important as well, like saying "That looks pretty but they are overcharging for it/it's not a good price" instead of "we can't afford it" are so important! "We can't afford it" is limiting, poverty mindset, while "That item/outing looks exciting, but we haven't budgeted for it this month. We want to make sure we have money for everything we need, so Mommy and Totty can talk about budgeting for that in the future..." gives a child a sense that they CAN afford things, with responsible planning. And children can also be told "That wont be something Mommy and Totty will be planning into the budget, but would you like me to help you make a plan to earn and save money so you can buy it for yourself?". Money mindset should be empowering, neither the mindset of lack and limitation, nor the mindset of spoiling and overspending.

I just want to like this again!!! Very well written post!!

amother

Vermilion

Sun, May 05 2019, 11:50 pm

Want to know what you think of this.
My husband went to an expensive college for a year under the impression that his parents were going to pay. After a year he quit and made aliyah. His parents never bothered to pay the tuition. He told me this a few years into marriage and I thought maybe we should pay. He thinks it's not his debt because his parents had agreed to pay.
He says by now they have written off the debt. Do you think it's his responsibility to pay?

baby12x

Mon, May 06 2019, 1:01 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

We are poster children for Mesilla's failure. We didn't stick to it, largely because the counselor we paid hardly followed up. We were left to our own devices and back to Square One. In theory, the organization sounded like a dream come true but was virtually useless in reality.

There are sooo mant free resources out there.
Check out rockstar finance
Mr. Money mustache
(My own blog www.adimesaved.com)
Go on Twitter and reddit and tons of people would be happy to help you budget, figure out investing etc.
The internet is a wonderful resource with so much help available

notshanarishona

Mon, May 06 2019, 3:01 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Let's see...within the last year, we've borrowed her Chanuka cash to pay the cleaning lady a few times, her birthday money when we ran short for groceries, and several more I can't think of right now. Our older DD's babysitting money is eaten up by the adults here faster than it comes in. Twisted Evil

If you are in debt.. The first thing to do is get rid of luxuries such as cleaning lady rather than keep borrowing. As sad as it is that Mesila failed to help you , it's your choice and responsibility to turn your finances around.

amother

Pearl

Mon, May 06 2019, 3:54 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Um yes. Ignoring it isn’t helping anybody. It’s probably accumulating interest and ruining his credit- I’m assuming it was on his name, he was legally an adult and signed all the paperwork etc.

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 06 2019, 4:25 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Not always is cleaning help a luxury. If the choice is full time work with part time cleaning help or being a sahm, then the first way is the way to go.

Not everyone has the strength to be out of the house 6+ hours a day, come home to cook and serve dinner, give the children some tlc, baths/showers and bedtime, besides having time for their husband... To have to also do all the cleaning, they may not have the time or koach.

ectomorph

Mon, May 06 2019, 5:06 am

PurpleandGold wrote:

Best post on this thread.

Mir doesn't have tuition. They ask for a donation instead.