Dear brothers and sisters throughout the world

southernbubby

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:37 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

I don’t think you should say this to a bubby

Thanks rose.
I don't understand where she is coming from and wonder why she attacked me.

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:38 pm

southernbubby wrote:

There is a young man who lives in Monsey who lost all four limbs to sepsis caused by strep. The community raised 1.4 million dollars for prosthetic limbs. He has been in the hospital and rehab for about a year.

Remember the little illegal immigrant girl who died in ICE custody? She had untreated strep.

And babies still die of group B strep. I just read an article about it.

I don't know where you got the impression that strep can't kill.

And even if you would be wrong, she should not be talking to you this way. You are always so respectful to everyone.

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:39 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Thanks rose.
I don't understand where she is coming from and wonder why she attacked me.

I think she thought you are an antivaxxer. LOL

southernbubby

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:42 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

And even if you would be wrong, she should not be talking to you this way. You are always so respectful to everyone.

Thanks
We don't know what makes someone react like that.

Sunny Days

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:44 pm

delicious wrote:

\\

Very silly comeback. Comparison is childish.

know anyone that that happened too?
A newborn with strept isn't even treated. I dont think A patient in remission dies from strept.

Hmph Hmph. we spent the day in the hospital due to strep in a patient younger than 2 years old.
eta: bh were not talking death- but was on the way to ch'v turning septic. b'H we caught it fast enough.

southernbubby

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:46 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I think she thought you are an antivaxxer. LOL

OMG!!!
And I am the only one who talks about how deadly the flu is!
Measles is a serious illness but that doesn't mean that we can ignore everything else.
Germs are getting stronger these days.

skee

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

you make a good point. my post is not telling you not to vaccinate. my post is about hate.

most people who dont vaccinate dont care what others do. it your choice, your child. do as you see fit.

but the hate is beyond words to describe and just plain sinaas chinam.
I guess its the nisayan of the generation before moshiach.

a high dose of emunah would suit everyone well.
if you had emunah, you would not hate someone who doesnt vaxx. you would beleive you did your hishtadlus and that's that.

it looks like beleif in vaccines replaced
beleif in Hashem

it would be nice if all the hateful ppl at non vaxxers, would have as much fear of Hashem as they have fear of measels/following CDC etc

I think you misunderstood my point. I guess I wasn't clear. When I said that I don't understand why anti-vaxxers think NO ONE should vaccinate I didn't mean in reference to them convincing others not to vax.

I meant that I can understand why someone would think certain individuals shouldn't vax - like if the child in question had a bad reaction to a prior vaccine or has a condition that makes a bad reaction to a vaccine likely. But unless someone is in that category, which most people are not, I don't understand why they wouldn't vaccinate (which implies that they think no one should vaccinate regardless of whether they have a specific vulnerability) on the basis of knowing someone who had a bad reaction to a vaccine. To me that is like saying "my friend's child drank milk and went into anaphylactic shock so I am not going to feed my child dairy because I have no way of knowing if he is allergic and what if he is and he dies when he drinks milk." What will happen when this outbreak spreads and the very same anti-vaxxers then know someone who c"v had a bad reaction to measles?

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:32 pm

camp123 wrote:

For those who say if you believe vaccines are dangerous it's your hishdadlus not to vaccinate have their hashkafa wrong.
Your obligation to do hishdadlus is based on what society thinks is normal, not what an individual believes.
If you believe your hishdadlus to stay healthy is to eat three bananas a day but that's not an accepted norm it wouldn't count as hishdadlus.
Not vaccinating and saying what ever happens, happens is not ok, because society mandates you to vaccinate.
But vaccinating and saying whatever happens is Hashem's will is ok.
This is because Hashem is hidden, there are no open miracles and you are obligated to do what's considered normal by the majority of society.
So, vaccinate even if you think there's a problem and you can rely on Hashem to look after you.
This is what rabbi tatz quoted rav elyashiv as saying.

Uch in vei if my granparents who came to America after the war would do what American Society mandated from them back then

amother

Pewter

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:34 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Uch in vei if my granparents who came to America after the war would do what American Society mandated from them back then

You gotta know how to differentiate.
Do you not use any of todays technology???

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:35 pm

gamzehyaavor wrote:

Wait. so if that is the case- don't you think there is *some* obligation to keeping them safe?

It's not about what we think. We have a Torah as guidance

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:40 pm

Sebastian wrote:

there's no risk in staying home and quarantining yourself if you aren't vaccinated. Do that.

The 9 yr old boy with permanent brain damage from measles wouldn't agree it's easy to get measles when you're young.

The kidney donor would've gotten measles again even if he had it as a child b/c his immune system was suppressed from the donation.

I still can't fathom why parents who love their kids would allow them to get sick with a painful disease, even if it isn't deadly. I just can't wrap my head around that. Immunity from 2 doses of MMR is the SAME as immunity from the disease. The vaccine is very well tested and has been around for decades.

I will definitely quarantine myself if I am sick. In time of an outbreak I will be extra vigilant to notice even the slightest sniffle.

How can you say that two MMRs produces the same immunity as the disease when many on here mentioned people who got measles after being fully vaccinated. Plus a nurse told my friend that there are studies now where they're trying to see how long the immunity lasts and when to recommend an adult booster. I can email her for details about the study if you would like. And why would every OB be checking for immunity if it's guaranteed after two shots

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:46 pm

yksraya wrote:

To those of you who say measles is mild and easy and would expose your kids to it, have you read the "have you had measles" thread? Those who had measles or their parents/grandparents had measles explain how "mild and easy" it is. Worth taking into consideration.

Definitely makes a difference if they took vitamin A per CDC recomendations and how sick they were before the measles

Sunny Days

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:48 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

It's not about what we think. We have a Torah as guidance

EXACTLY like you said.

HelloG

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:49 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Another review finding no connection between aluminum and neurotoxicity, but no conclusive results about macrophagic myofaciitis (muscle issue) and chronic fatigue syndrome. Advises further research.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.....11654

Abstract: For almost a century, aluminum ...has been used to improve the immunogenicity of vaccines. Al is currently included in vaccines ... Official health authorities consider the inclusion of Al in most of the presently recommended vaccines to be extremely effective and sufficiently safe. However, the inclusion of Al salts in vaccines has been debated for several years because of studies that seem to indicate that chronic Al exposure through vaccine administration can interfere with cellular and metabolic processes leading to severe neurologic diseases. Children, who in their first years of life receive several vaccine doses over a reduced period of time, would be most susceptible to any risk that might be associated with vaccines or vaccine components. The main aim of this paper was to discuss the data presently available regarding Al neurotoxicity and the risk for children receiving vaccines or other pharmaceutical preparations containing Al. Analysis of the literature showed that no apparent reason exists to support the elimination of Al from vaccines for fear of neurotoxicity. The only problem that deserves attention is the suggested relationship between Al oxyhydroxide-containing vaccines and macrophagic myofaciitis or myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome. Currently, definitive conclusions cannot be drawn on these risks and further studies must be conducted. Until then, Al remains the best solution to improve vaccine efficacy.

And this one (I think I linked it earlier but here it is again):

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.....04837

Objective
To evaluate relationships between whole blood (B-Al) and hair aluminum (H-Al) levels in healthy infants and their immunization history and development.

Methods
We conducted a cross-sectional study of 9- to 13-month-old children recruited from an urban primary care center, excluding those with a history of renal disease or receipt of either aluminum-containing pharmaceuticals or parenteral nutrition. Aluminum levels were measured using inductively coupled plasma-mass spectrometry. Correlation with Bayley Scales of Infant and Toddler Development, Third Edition (BSID) and vaccine-related aluminum load was assessed via linear regression models.

Results
The median age of 85 participants was 287 days. B-Al (median, 15.4 ng/mL; range, 0.9–952 ng/mL) and H-Al (median 42,542 ng/g; range, 2758–211,690 ng/g) were weakly correlated (Spearman ρ = 0.26; P = .03). There was no significant correlation between B-Al or H-Al and estimated aluminum load from vaccines. B-Al was not correlated with BSID composite or subscale scores. Although H-Al was not correlated with BSID scores in models including all data (n = 85), it was inversely correlated with motor composite (P < .02; Wald = 5.88) and the gross motor subscale (P = .04; Wald = 4.38) in models that excluded an extreme outlying H-Al value.

Conclusions:
Infant B-Al and H-Al varied considerably but did not correlate with their immunization history. Likewise, there was no correlation between B-Al and infant development or between H-Al and language or cognitive development. An inverse correlation between H-Al and BSID motor scores deserves further investigation.

It seems everyone agrees aluminum is not great for humans, but evidence thus far is that vaccine levels
a - fall below recommended limits
b - don't lead to neurotoxicity
c - don't lead to development issues

It is not easy to prove a negative. Each of these studies finds no evidence for specific issues, but recommends further studies into other issues. And so the scientific process continues.

This is all so Spanish to me. (I don't know spanish) thanks I'll forward

amother

Sapphire

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:49 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Definitely makes a difference if they took vitamin A per CDC recomendations and how sick they were before the measles

Do you not acknowledge that measles can have potentially serious and life-threatening complications?

crust

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:57 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

The same can be said for people on both sides of the fence.

Not on this site. Smile

amother

Gold

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:04 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I have been told by my OB's nurse that immunity from vaccines is worn away slightly by each exposure, and that is the reason why they test for it. HOWEVER, it usually bounces back eventually. She wasn't sure whether the same is true for people who are immune from having had the illness.
Another issue is that there are many health problems/medical interventions which compromise the immune system. Any of them could cause a person to lose their immunity from vaccines or disease without them realizing it!

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:09 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Do you not acknowledge that measles can have potentially serious and life-threatenin
g complications?

Definitely. A lot can be avoided with the proper care.
Do you acknowledge that MMR can have potentially life threatening and serious complications?

southernbubby

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:10 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

It's not about what we think. We have a Torah as guidance

But we have seen that numerous rabbonim have issued statements that due to the outbreak, it is obligatory according to halacha to vaccinate so what Rabbi Moshe Feinstein said may have had to do with organ donation but not with containing an outbreak with vaccines.

amother

Emerald

Wed, May 08 2019, 9:11 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

You gotta know how to differentiate.
Do you not use any of todays technology???

It all depends on what you accept shots to be