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Anti-Vaxx - Rabbi Approved (!!!!)
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 2:23 am
I'm still fuming after an encounter I had recently with a woman who sends to my son's daycare. Recently (BH! BH!) the daycare instated a rule that, starting next year, they would only accept kids who have been vaccinated according to the Ministry for Health's guidelines. Out of the woodwork (well, only one, I had my suspicions about the lets-treat-lice-and-worms-naturally family) came 2 families who were very irate about this new rule.

I met one of the mothers and she started complaining about the new rule, completely oblivious to the fact that I'm very pro-vaxx. I tried to be gentle with her, but she was infuriating. Her main points were;
- people who vaxx haven't done any research and vaccinate their kids blindly (she, of course, in all her wisdom and with her 'medical credentials' did TONS of research....)
- loads of doctors don't vaxx their own kids (!!!) but they don't tell their patients because they're afraid of backlash from the Ministry for Health
- vaccinations cause autism (oh, this gem!)
- Her RAV is against vaccinations! (I've a good mind to name and shame him now!!! He's a hasidic Rabbi based in the merkaz- he should be ashamed of himself for spreading such nonsense)

I asked her; do you WANT your kids to get measles (she lives in an area which was plagued by measles) she replied "No, but if she does we'll cure it naturally". I asked; what about expectant women who could catch measles and harm their baby? She replied "I try not to think about such things. She might also NOT catch it and be fine!" I told her very seriously -- when I was expecting, a woman brought her unvaccinated kids to my home for shabbat. She never TOLD me about her decision not to vaxx until the END of her visit. If you choose not to vaxx, that's a choice you CAN make. However I should be given the right to CHOOSE if I want to be exposed to unvaccinated kids. You shouldn't be able to make that choice for me!

Needless to say, the mother was unimpressed. We never were friends, but it certainly soured our 'hellos' in the morning dropping off my kid. I'm still in shock that people like this exist in such close proximity.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 4:22 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I asked; what about expectant women who could catch measles and harm their baby? She replied "I try not to think about such things.


Hey, at least she's being honest. She genuinely doesn't care about anyone else. Mad
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 7:48 am
I totally get how infuriated you are. I just want to make a distinction between natural approaches to getting rid of lice and not vaxxing . I am pro-vax, yet I was opposed to using chemicals when we had to deal with lice. Chemicals don’t work as a one-time treatment, because they don’t kill the eggs, so you’d have to use chemicals repeatedly if you don’t want to do comb throughs. And if you’re going to do comb throughs, you don’t need chemicals.

The natural method, which I used successfully, is to douse the head and hair with conditioner or olive oil, and to use a special lice comb to painstakingly comb through every strand of hair. The oil or conditioner paralyzed the lice so they can’t run and hide; the comb gets them out. You do this nightly for a few days, then every other day for a few weeks. Yes, it takes several hours to do a comb through for a single head of long, thick hair. And it takes almost as long for a head of thick, short hair. But it works.

There is no parallel to this for vaccination. You can’t substitute vitamins, herbs, homeopathy, or essential oils for vaccination.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 8:11 am
Measles is natural as is snake venum and head lice so catch measles and be immune and hope that you don't kill anyone else in the process.
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 8:17 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
I totally get how infuriated you are. I just want to make a distinction between natural approaches to getting rid of lice and not vaxxing . I am pro-vax, yet I was opposed to using chemicals when we had to deal with lice. Chemicals don’t work as a one-time treatment, because they don’t kill the eggs, so you’d have to use chemicals repeatedly if you don’t want to do comb throughs. And if you’re going to do comb throughs, you don’t need chemicals.

The natural method, which I used successfully, is to douse the head and hair with conditioner or olive oil, and to use a special lice comb to painstakingly comb through every strand of hair. The oil or conditioner paralyzed the lice so they can’t run and hide; the comb gets them out. You do this nightly for a few days, then every other day for a few weeks. Yes, it takes several hours to do a comb through for a single head of long, thick hair. And it takes almost as long for a head of thick, short hair. But it works.

There is no parallel to this for vaccination. You can’t substitute vitamins, herbs, homeopathy, or essential oils for vaccination.


I understand what you mean and apologize if I offended you, but the reason I mentioned it is because her daughter is in my son's playgroup and she chose to deal with worms and lice 'naturally', which led her to cause constant infestations throughout the year - especially of head lice, which she simply didn't deal with properly and in the end the manager of the daycare refused to allow her to come back until she had sorted them because she could literally see the lice creeping around on her daughter's head every morning. It was actually quite sad. They joined an obscure hasidic sect and are very 'alternative'
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amother




Rose


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 8:43 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
I totally get how infuriated you are. I just want to make a distinction between natural approaches to getting rid of lice and not vaxxing . I am pro-vax, yet I was opposed to using chemicals when we had to deal with lice. Chemicals don’t work as a one-time treatment, because they don’t kill the eggs, so you’d have to use chemicals repeatedly if you don’t want to do comb throughs. And if you’re going to do comb throughs, you don’t need chemicals.

The natural method, which I used successfully, is to douse the head and hair with conditioner or olive oil, and to use a special lice comb to painstakingly comb through every strand of hair. The oil or conditioner paralyzed the lice so they can’t run and hide; the comb gets them out. You do this nightly for a few days, then every other day for a few weeks. Yes, it takes several hours to do a comb through for a single head of long, thick hair. And it takes almost as long for a head of thick, short hair. But it works.

There is no parallel to this for vaccination. You can’t substitute vitamins, herbs, homeopathy, or essential oils for vaccination.


My mom has been a nit lady for years. She has successfully treated and cleaned countless people without using any chemicals. There is a necessary follow-up. You must comb the kids hair nightly. She also recommends spraying the hair with vinigar water. The smell goes away after a few minutes.

I wouldn't compare nits to measels.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 8:51 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
My mom has been a nit lady for years. She has successfully treated and cleaned countless people without using any chemicals. There is a necessary follow-up. You must comb the kids hair nightly. She also recommends spraying the hair with vinigar water. The smell goes away after a few minutes.

I wouldn't compare nits to measels.


They are both "natural" but the similarity ends there.
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amother




Vermilion


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 8:56 am
Honey there are plenty of crazy "rabbis" out there. Just because someone uses the title, takes on the role, has a following and dresses the part, doesn't mean a darn thing about his yiras shamayim. That's not too say that there can't be any legitimate rabbanim who are anti vaxx. But yeah, I can find you a "rabbi" somewhere out there to support pretty much anything, no matter how bizarre.
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 9:01 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
Honey there are plenty of crazy "rabbis" out there. Just because someone uses the title, takes on the role, has a following and dresses the part, doesn't mean a darn thing about his yiras shamayim. That's not too say that there can't be any legitimate rabbanim who are anti vaxx. But yeah, I can find you a "rabbi" somewhere out there to support pretty much anything, no matter how bizarre.


The scary thing is that he's the head of a Beit Midrash which has amassed a sizable (and growing) following. It feels very cultish to me. Lots of baalei tshuva in my area are being attracted to its teachings
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amother




Vermilion


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 9:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The scary thing is that he's the head of a Beit Midrash which has amassed a sizable (and growing) following. It feels very cultish to me. Lots of baalei tshuva in my area are being attracted to its teachings


Unfortunately, baalei teshuva often do NOT have the background to make the right judgements regarding whom and what they follow. This is why it's so, so, so crucial to stay connected to a major, mainstream rav locally who can provide guidance on alternative options.
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 9:12 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
I wouldn't compare nits to measels.


To be fair, I didn't compare nits to measles. I simply said that she already had a history of only using natural means of dealing with medical issues, and therefore it didn't surprise me that she was also against vaccinations because she considered them unnatural too.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 11:34 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand what you mean and apologize if I offended you, but the reason I mentioned it is because her daughter is in my son's playgroup and she chose to deal with worms and lice 'naturally', which led her to cause constant infestations throughout the year - especially of head lice, which she simply didn't deal with properly and in the end the manager of the daycare refused to allow her to come back until she had sorted them because she could literally see the lice creeping around on her daughter's head every morning. It was actually quite sad. They joined an obscure hasidic sect and are very 'alternative'


Oh, you didn't offend me at all. I understand what you mean. There's a substantial overlap between people who don't vax and people who try natural remedies for all sorts of things.

I use natural remedies for things like lice. I don't use pesticides to keep my lawn nice; honestly, if it wouldn't make me a pariah in my community, I'd trade in my lawn for a rock garden.

But when it comes to dangerous diseases, I'm very grateful for what modern medicine has to offer. I think -- I hope! -- there are lots of other people like me.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 11:39 am
Op, if you don't mind me asking, why did you allow your child to go to a playgroup that as of this year did not enforce vaccinations?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 12:04 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
Oh, you didn't offend me at all. I understand what you mean. There's a substantial overlap between people who don't vax and people who try natural remedies for all sorts of things.

I use natural remedies for things like lice. I don't use pesticides to keep my lawn nice; honestly, if it wouldn't make me a pariah in my community, I'd trade in my lawn for a rock garden.

But when it comes to dangerous diseases, I'm very grateful for what modern medicine has to offer. I think -- I hope! -- there are lots of other people like me.


Exactly! Home remedies such as chicken soup are great for illnesses that are not life threatening.
I feel like you do, however, when people are peddling alternative medicine on a gullible population. I see people who can't afford decent food but who fork over $$$ for quackery.
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SuperWify




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 12:29 pm
There are plenty of rabbis who approve plenty crazy ideas (!!!!!!).

I don’t get the shock?
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 12:59 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Op, if you don't mind me asking, why did you allow your child to go to a playgroup that as of this year did not enforce vaccinations?


Because it's only become an 'issue' this year since the measles outbreak. Before then, I (and all the staff and parents) were under the naive assumption that everyone was vaccinating their kids as one normally does. Only since the measles outbreak did it become necessary to even instate such a rule. It also took time to ascertain whether such a rule was even legal.
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amother




Vermilion


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 1:18 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Because it's only become an 'issue' this year since the measles outbreak. Before then, I (and all the staff and parents) were under the naive assumption that everyone was vaccinating their kids as one normally does. Only since the measles outbreak did it become necessary to even instate such a rule. It also took time to ascertain whether such a rule was even legal.


I'm actually surprised that it's legal to have a day care without medical forms/ documentation of immunization. The health department doesn't oversee any of this in Israel?
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 1:23 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I'm actually surprised that it's legal to have a day care without medical forms/ documentation of immunization. The health department doesn't oversee any of this in Israel?


Nothing was asked of us. All I needed to do was fill out a form with contact details of who collects him, allergies, kupat cholim information etc. But nothing about vaccinations. It's very standard here.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 2:34 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I'm actually surprised that it's legal to have a day care without medical forms/ documentation of immunization. The health department doesn't oversee any of this in Israel?


Just like in other countries, there are also unlicensed day cares that tend to not ask all the right questions, and look the other way about things as long as the money is coming in.
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, May 12 2019, 2:43 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
Just like in other countries, there are also unlicensed day cares that tend to not ask all the right questions, and look the other way about things as long as the money is coming in.


His daycare is licensed, to be fair it's a very respectable place and run by a yeshiva in our area. It's not some kind of side alley money maker. I'm very good friends with the manager and she's a very hard worker. It was a difficult decision to refuse entry to non-vaxxers because they knew they'd basically be throwing out two families who have already been with them for 2 years
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