Invitations that are not invitations

amother

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:11 am

I know in the frum world there is a code people are supposed to know for when an invitation is a real invitation and when it's meant to be ignored. (There are halachos against this but that's for a separate discussion.)

I grew up frum but didn't realize until recently, for example, that an invitation without a reply card meant you weren't invited to the meal. Silly me.

Anyway, in what category are e-vites? If I get an emailed invitation, does it require some kind of response? Do I assume I'm not really invited and the real guests get paper invites? Please update me.

DrMom

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:20 am

I think there may be several cultural elements coming into play here.

For example, many Sephardi/Mizrachi weddings in Israel don't require explicit RSVPs as there is no assigned seating.

Did your evite include an RSVP option?
I use evites for many events, as the Israeli snail-mail system has become rather unreliable over the past few years.

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Chassidish simchas don't have an RSVP. All are welcome. Never heard an invite is not an invite.

sub

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:40 am

Many invitations say return cards we do not send for we hope you will attend
Also, there are people who know the whole world so they invite them but put seuda cards just for family and really close friends and business associates. This means that others are invited for kabolas panim ( smorgasboard) or dancing ( desert)
In fact a co- worker of mine actually invited only family to meal and wrote desert and bentching for everyone else for her son’s bar mitzva because expenses can run very high if you invite everyone for the meal.
And sometimes the return card is left out by mistake. A freind of mine had her children help with envelope stuffing and they forgot to put the return cards into some.

giselle

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:44 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t think an invite is ever not a real invite. If you receive an invitation, you are invited. Perhaps not to the whole thing, but still invited. I understand how it can get confusing, but the host would be very happy that you took the effort to come. It simply gets too expensive to invite everyone you know to the meal.

amother

Lilac

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:55 am

giselle wrote:

I’ve come to accept, from reading this site, that in some parts of the Jewish world, this is done.

But those in that world also need to learn to accept that outside that small enclave, it reads as “I want a gift from you, but I don’t like you enough to actually pay for you to attend.”

Again, maybe not in your enclave, but elsewhere. In most places. Definitely in my circles.

giselle

Sun, May 12 2019, 5:59 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Ok, I definitely did not know that. In my circles a gift is not expected if you don’t attend.

aricelli

Sun, May 12 2019, 6:16 am

When I made my simchah I was so so happy for each person who took time out of their busy schedule to come and share in my joy- invite or no invite, gift or no gift- it meant the world to me. Until I made my first simchah I didnt realize how it felt to be a baal simchah and how much it means when you go to someones affair

amother

Lilac

Sun, May 12 2019, 6:16 am

giselle wrote:

Ok, I definitely did not know that. In my circles a gift is not expected if you don’t attend.

You’ve misunderstood. That is how any invitation that excludes the person from the meal would be — is — construed outside of the very small enclave that does this.

And yes, a gift, albeit a smaller one, is generally expected even if one doesn’t attend.

Notsobusy

Sun, May 12 2019, 6:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Right, I understand you can't host everyone. It's really ok not to send an invitation if you don't expect them to attend or can't afford to host them.

A lot of people in our small enclave have very large families, or belong to really large shuls. They would love to invite everyone to the entire wedding but they either can't afford to or it doesn't make sense to them to have a 700 person wedding. So they invite a lot of the people for just the chuppah or chuppah and simchas chosson and kallah.

They really want those people to come but can't invite them to the whole thing. I'm not getting what the issue is. If it's done differently in your circles that's fine, but why does it bother you if someone else does something different?

amother

Sun, May 12 2019, 6:50 am

Notsobusy wrote:

The issue is people who don't know the code and don't know that there are tiers of invitations and may accidentally assume that an invitation is an invitation. Extending an invitation that you expect will be declined is clearly prohibited by halacha.

sub

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:00 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

[b]
No absolutely not. If you walk in just to say mazal tov or just call or go to kiddush or can’t go at all you don’t bring a gift unless you are really really close. There are weeks where I have 3-4 simchos a night. I would need another job just to give gifts.
When I make a simcha these days I know that some will bring gifts and some won’t. I know some will come and some won’t but I do my part which is invite people and make sure no one feels left out

amother

Lilac

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:24 am

Notsobusy wrote:

And why can’t you understand how it’s construed outside your enclave?

I’m simply explaining how outsiders see it. And the OP is clearly outside your community. As am I.

amother

Lilac

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:33 am

sub wrote:

Again in your little enclave.

And that’s great when you’re just dealing with your little enclave. I get it.

But if you expect others to understand the idiosyncrasies of your community, you should at least try to understand the customs and mores of the larger world.

Where it would be rude to just walk into an affair, say hello, and leave. And who would be bothered to get dressed and go somewhere to do it anyway. (That’s honestly the part I don’t get.)

Where if you invite someone, you invite them for the whole shebang. You make the affair you can afford for the number of people you want to invite. Be that brunch or desserts or a 5 course gourmet meal. Where inviting for less, or inviting without wanting the person to attend, would be an insult and a clear money grub.

Where invitation equals gift.

Simple1

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:39 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

I'm pretty sure they do NOT expect a gift if not invited to the whole thing. It should just read that I'm thinking of you but can't afford to invite too many people. (At worst it would mean I'm not that close to you, but that's not necessarily always true either. )

That said, I would just invite to the whole event. I don't like half invitations and it's not the way I was raised.

amother

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:41 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Exactly.

But in addition the issue is the ambiguity. You are putting the onus on the invitee to figure out whether they're truly invited or not and whether they're really expected to attend.

Simple1

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:46 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Exactly.

But in addition the issue is the ambiguity. You are putting the onus on the invitee to figure out whether they're truly invited or not and whether they're really expected to attend.

You are truly invited to the dancing or chupah. I agree it can be confusing if you're not in that culture.