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Experienced suffering and later seen why it had to happen?
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sushilover




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:31 am
amother [ Linen ] wrote:
Why all or nothing view point? Why can't it be true that Hashem gave you a lesser pain in order to prevent your cancer, a larger pain? You were meant to go through pain, and Hashem granted you the kindness of the lesser pain over the greater, perhaps because you were already achieving rectification with so much suffering? And the amazing connection that one disease led to curing the other!! So you needed suffering, but can also connect the dots? Tremendous revelation of good in your life!

I have definitely seen my own suffering bring about great purpose and good. Yes, I was meant to suffer, and yes I can see the good that it brought about. And yes, the revelation of the good was in itself a chessed. If you can see the good, why turn away from Hashem's chessed?


Absolutely.
Like my rav said, "The fact that later on you were able to see good come from it, is certainly a chesed, but it is not the reason. "
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amother




Aquamarine


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:31 am
My mother was emotionally abusive. Not from a bad place but she couldn’t help herself.
I grew up hating myself, and it’s been a long upward journey. There was a distance between my father and siblings and me that was also an outgrowth of that.
My mother died. It was traumatic. It changed me. I never ever would have chosen it. If I can bring her back to life now I would. Even if it means she’ll continue hurting me as likely she would.
But but but
But I was able to heal and find closure in a way which I don’t think would be possible had she still been alive and undermining me.
My father needs me now in a way that he never would have otherwise. Consequently he now sees me as a woman rather than the rebellious child he viewed me as before. Because of that when I recently did something which would have garnered a huge reaction from him before, he didn’t say a word.
My siblings need me. They come to my house. They talk to me. There’s no one to tell them that I am emotionally disturbed or some such nonsense.
I don’t know. Life is grey. Not black and white. But this is my reality now.
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amother




Blush


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:41 am
Sometimes I can see good came up through the bad. But that doesn’t mean I see why it happened that way.

Going through a traumatic event in my marriage made our relationship stronger, closer. We went from lukewarm to passionate. But it was very painful hitting rock bottom first and frankly I don’t see why it had to happen this way. I trust that Hashem has his reasons. But I have no clarity here.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:41 am
The stories about suffering which lead to a yeshua used to upset me. Why couldn't He have brought the yeshua without the suffering?

Now, I've been through some tough times in my own life. I know that I am a different, kinder, more loving person because of the challenges I've been through. I can't point at each issue and explain why I needed it. I certainly would not have planned things this way. But I wouldn't change anything. In a quiet moment, I can look back and this crazy life just seems so beautiful. It's hard to describe and sounds totally cliche, but I know that only Someone all-knowing and loving could have planned things this way.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:45 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
The title of this thread is "experienced suffering and later seen why it had to happen". In other words the suffering or bad circumstances didn't make sense at the time, but later on the pieces came together and it now makee sense.

So usually when there is a good ending to the story, people say it makes sense. This is completely bizarre to me. In your situation, it's wonderful that you found your bashert and have good shalom bayis and I'h it should continue till 120. That being said, do we now understand why hashem wanted so many people to suffer along the way? Why you had to suffer, your dh had to suffer, your step chidren had to go to their mothers funeral, all so that you would be at the perfect time in your life to marry dh? If you were god, would you have planned it this way? Of course not. You'd have done virtually every single thing differently. Therefore it's bizarre to say that we now understand hashems plan and it makes a little sense when in fact literally none of it makes sense to us.

Of course humans would have done things differently. Of course it makes no sense that any young children have to go their parents' funerals. Of course it makes no sense that young parents have to bury babies. It makes no sense that newlywed brides bury their Israeli soldier husbands.

Why does it ever make sense when people die young or in the prime of their lives?

Pretty much nothing that God does makes sense to me. I trust that He is running the world the way He wants to run it. If I can get a small glimpse into why *I* had to go through a certain difficult experience then I can get a bit of comfort after the fact.
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amother




Black


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:49 am
I think that some people going through hardship right now would roll their eyes and get annoyed with the responses in this thread. I didn't find these thoughts helpful while the pain was still front and center in my life.

There's a reason it says not to be menachem a person while their dead are still in front of them. Sometimes the only thing that gets us through suffering is focusing on putting one foot in front of the other and moving forward through the fog of pain. We don't need to make meaning out of it while it's happening.

Afterwards, when it is finally over, we can begin to see, if not quite the good, then at least how it helped us grow.
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amother




Black


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 9:52 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Of course humans would have done things differently. Of course it makes no sense that any young children have to go their parents' funerals. Of course it makes no sense that young parents have to bury babies. It makes no sense that newlywed brides bury their Israeli soldier husbands.

Why does it ever make sense when people die young or in the prime of their lives?

Pretty much nothing that God does makes sense to me. I trust that He is running the world the way He wants to run it. If I can get a small glimpse into why *I* had to go through a certain difficult experience then I can get a bit of comfort after the fact.


I only understand a tiny bit of the intricacies of all the branches of science, which attempt to explain how the physical world operates. How can I expect to understand the metaphysical, which is far more complex and not within our grasp as humans?
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Tzutzie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 11:05 am
Absolutely.
So many difficult things have had to happen for me to be where I am today.

After I got married It was one challange after the other that pushed me forwards.
Nothing earth shattering. Nothing too terrible. Some more difficult than others.
But my response to those challanges brought we where I am today, mentally, emotionally and physically. Where I'm sitting now, in my kitchen looking out into the rainy and surprisingly cold outdoors surrounded by trees, birds and nature.
Had you told me 10 years ago I would happily and be where I am today, I would have had the biggest laughing episode and written you off as crazy.
For me it wasn't a specific event that I suffered thru and then I found clarity. It was more like A let to B, then B turned sour and let to C..... going on like this for a few years now.
I can't say that for all challanges. But it did give me the clarity and confidence that things happen for a reason. And the only thing we can do, is try to make the best decisions and choice and behave in the best way we possibly could with the tools and circumstances we are given.
And accept that life is hard. It wasn't meant to be easy. And at the same time. Life is beautiful. You just have to open your eyes to see it and let it surround you.
Life's a journey. And I'm learning that instead of holding on really tight not to fly with every bump, I'm trying to roll with it and find the fun in it when possible. Because as my husband often says, " this is also one of those things that in a little bit (months, years, decades), we'll talk about this and laugh, we might as well laugh now!"

Cheers to life
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Jun 10 2019, 11:56 pm
sushilover wrote:
When I first got married I was had a surgery that was a total failure. It was very painful and it didn't help at all. A few years later I was experiencing pain from the scar tissue, went to see my surgeon who discovered a cancerous mass. By "coincidence" this surgeon worked with the top specialist in the country for that kind of cancer, so I was able to see that oncologist right away. Here's the clincher, the oncologist told me that the mass was too small to feel and is hardly every caught so quickly. The scar tissue from my first surgery may very well have saved my life. It certainly saved me from having to go through the more aggressive treatment required for larger masses.
So the first surgery, which seemed to be pointless pain and a failure, was really important.

Well, I decided to share my story with our rav, thinking that he would love it. What a perfect example of seeing the reason behind my pain, right?

My rav hesitated after I told the story, as if trying to decide whether or not to tell me what he was going to say. And he told me this:
Don't you think Hashem was able to find some other way of catching the cancer before it got bigger? A way that didn't involve a painful surgery and scar tissue?
G-d is not limited!
You didn't go through pain in order to catch the cancer. You went through the first surgery because for some reason you were meant to go through it. Your soul needed that for some reason.
The fact that later on you were able to see the good come from it, is certainly a chesed, but it is not the reason.

To be honest, what the rav said completely changed my worldview. I had never heard such a concept before.

My friend recently expressed the same thing. She got engaged after years of being in the parsha, which was very painful. Her chosen is a BT. People told her, "wow! Now you know why you had to wait so long! While you were davening to find him and dating all those duds, he wasn't even religious yet!"
She politely agreed with them, but told me privately, "Hashem could have helped him become religious ten years earlier. Or He could have made me be born later so I wouldn't have to spend all that time in shidduchim. I went through those years because that was what I was meant to go through. No other reason."


I never thought of it this way either. We can't really understand Hashem. Maybe a better question would be Have you ever experienced suffering and later on felt better about it knowing how things turned out?
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keepfighting




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 12:10 am
I went through an extremely difficult childhood and have many questions why certain things happen the way they did. But I feel like it’s my choice whether or not to let it bother me. I try to focus on now. What can I do now to change how things are as opposed to the past.
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amother




Mistyrose


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 12:28 am
I can't exactly call this suffering, I finally had my baby a few days past my due date. It's funny that he was born when he was born because the sono and my own calculations added up to the due date the dr had given me. My other ones were all born on the due dates I calculated myself.
Anyway, since it was my first boy I decided to stay by my parents for a few days after the bris so I had help changing diapers. The day after the bris I had to call hatzolah at 2am because my mom had suffered a stroke. Had I not been there then it would've been a not so happy ending. If I would've had the baby on the due date, the bris would've probably have been earlier and I would've been home when the stroke happened.
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amother




Seagreen


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 12:45 am
With my first dh, I was very very determined to save our marriage. We went for marriage counseling to several different Rabbonim. No matter what I did, he was always angry at me. I got divorced and got remarried. I am so grateful to my dh now and happily married. Had I not gone through my first marriage and divorce, I never would have found my bashert.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 5:55 am
I have been through so much, and several times I've been able to look back and say "Wow, I seriously dodged a bullet that time! Hashem really has my back, and knows what's best for me."

It doesn't always explain WHY it happened, and I don't often get that kind of insight. Sometimes when I do, it comes several years later. Hindsight is 20/20, after all.

Still, I've seen enough hand of G-d in my life to give me emunah, and trust that everything is eventually for my good.

Maybe I'm deluding myself, but that's OK too. I'd rather live with a positive attitude and face my challenges with hope, than to give in to despair and misery.
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amother




Vermilion


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:00 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I have been through so much, and several times I've been able to look back and say "Wow, I seriously dodged a bullet that time! Hashem really has my back, and knows what's best for me."

It doesn't always explain WHY it happened, and I don't often get that kind of insight. Sometimes when I do, it comes several years later. Hindsight is 20/20, after all.

Still, I've seen enough hand of G-d in my life to give me emunah, and trust that everything is eventually for my good.

Maybe I'm deluding myself, but that's OK too. I'd rather live with a positive attitude and face my challenges with hope, than to give in to despair and misery.


I'm glad you have found a way to deal with life and its challenges.

I'm not sure there is a binary choice here between hope vs. despair and misery. What about the option of humbly admitting that we don't have the answers and may never feel that we dodged a bullet?
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:34 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I'm glad you have found a way to deal with life and its challenges.

I'm not sure there is a binary choice here between hope vs. despair and misery. What about the option of humbly admitting that we don't have the answers and may never feel that we dodged a bullet?



Exactly. I think we don't ever want to concede that the ways of hashem are completely beyond human comprehension. There's a poster here that often talks about the many tzoros she and her family have but include a happy part of the story to demonstrate that hashem is guiding her. For example her husband lost his job and her baby is sick in the hospital. Because they can't afford car service or uber, they take public transportation to visit the baby. During a bus ride, her husband met a guy who gave her husband a check for $100. See, hashem has her back! These stories are non sensical but are common because we are desperate to view hashem on a positive light vs admitting that we don't understand.
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amother




Papaya


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:57 am
I got married "late". There was one particular shidduch where I was very hurt when he ended it. I later found out that he's in jail for a long time for doing horrible things.
I also believe I met my husband at an older age, after dating many men, so it would be clear to me that there isn't better out there and I'd stay through finding out his very big flaws. I don't know that these are the reasons. I'll probably never know the real reasons. But these reasons make sense to me and give me clarity about my life.
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Aylat




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:26 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I never thought of it this way either. We can't really understand Hashem. Maybe a better question would be Have you ever experienced suffering and later on felt better about it knowing how things turned out?


Yes. Not quite because of the way things turned out but because of who I became as a result of the experience.

ETA If you asked me now, I still wouldn't choose to go through the suffering. But I gained so much from it.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 11:13 am
I applied for teaching jobs in various schools and watched all my friends getting interviews and model lessons while nobody contacted me... I felt a bit bad about it - as though I wasn't good enough. In the end, one principal called, we scheduled a model lesson and I got the job!
I only realized then how Hashem saved me from so much time, energy etc. I could have spent on 10 different model lessons and interviews only to be rejected; and instead he only made me invest energy once!
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:07 pm
Oh yes. I've BH helped countless people with my worst experiences. Still wish they didn't happen but HM knows best
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