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Poll

Do you think I did the right thing?
No! Why did you do this to yourself? You will be bored stiff.
 13%  [ 14 ]
Yes! You will have peace of mind.
 74%  [ 76 ]
Who knows? Only time will tell.
 11%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 102


southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 5:28 pm
crust wrote:
Neh. I can tune in to that hotline whenever I want.
I can lock myself out of imamother any time and then get to see those threads.
I can unblock it.

But I am going to meet with anti-vax family soon and I can't be so riled up. I cant.


Have you considered getting a package of surgical masks for your family? I mean, isn't it safer that way? Just tell them, nothing personal, but you are studying to be a surgeon and you are just getting experience.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 5:44 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
Jewish women may wear skirts in Monsey, but go out of town and they're not wearing skirts, even the Orthodox women.

I don't understand what you're saying about Walmart. Immigrants and children of immigrants are mostly Americans too. My father was an immigrant. My mother is an immigrant. I am a child of immigrants. My father didn't become a citizen the day he and his family got off the boat, and neither did my mother. They waited / passed citizenship tests, etc. That doesn't make them not American.

But that's not what I was asking. My question was really this: I looked at the picture of the anti-vax event, and saw a few unmarried Orthodox young women (long sleeves, general BaisYaakov look) and a whole lot of Orthodox married women. It was easy to identify them; they wore tichels or sheitels. But somewhere on the left a few rows back I saw a woman with what looked like her own hair, blonde and slightly frizzy. Her top was sleeveless. I know non-Orthodox Jews who look like that. I know non-Jews who look like that. I personally can't tell the difference, and I'm not sure that you can, either.


They are not Americans the day they got off the boat. They are Americans when and if they become citizens. If the child of illegal immigrants is born here, the child of American. If not born here, they are not American.

The influx of illegal immigrants to Spring Valley and now beyond pretty means that those who barely speak English and are identifiably poor are overwhelmingly here illegally. It is their mannerisms besides the color of their skin and their heavy accents that give them away.

You are obviously niave about what goes on in this county.

Please show the picture. It's probably one of Sussmen's Christain supporters. That's what my intuition says.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 5:54 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Have you considered getting a package of surgical masks for your family? I mean, isn't it safer that way? Just tell them, nothing personal, but you are studying to be a surgeon and you are just getting experience.

You could even ask them to volunteer as subjects tell him the first thing you need to try is giving vaccines
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 6:01 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Have you considered getting a package of surgical masks for your family? I mean, isn't it safer that way? Just tell them, nothing personal, but you are studying to be a surgeon and you are just getting experience.

Also hazmat suits.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 6:30 pm
Squishy wrote:
They are not Americans the day they got off the boat. They are Americans when and if they become citizens. If the child of illegal immigrants is born here, the child of American. If not born here, they are not American.

The influx of illegal immigrants to Spring Valley and now beyond pretty means that those who barely speak English and are identifiably poor are overwhelmingly here illegally. It is their mannerisms besides the color of their skin and their heavy accents that give them away.

You are obviously niave about what goes on in this county.

Please show the picture. It's probably one of Sussmen's Christain supporters. That's what my intuition says.


The picture is at https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0.....osition=4. Around the sixth row, 2nd or 3rd person from left. Sleeveless, long wavy blond hair. I know non-Jews and non-Orthodox Jews who look just like that.

Many Hassidim are poor, have heavy accents, and odd mannerisms. They're still Americans. In general, the ultra Orthodox don't look all that American. Do you realize how different we look? I don't cover my hair, and even so, I know I look different.
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gamanit




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 10:20 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
The picture is at https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0.....osition=4. Around the sixth row, 2nd or 3rd person from left. Sleeveless, long wavy blond hair. I know non-Jews and non-Orthodox Jews who look just like that.

Many Hassidim are poor, have heavy accents, and odd mannerisms. They're still Americans. In general, the ultra Orthodox don't look all that American. Do you realize how different we look? I don't cover my hair, and even so, I know I look different.


How about third row 3rd from the left? Looks like a typical reporter to me.
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 10:44 pm
youngishbear wrote:
It's gotten so ridiculous, that even sensible normal people who do vaccinate are beginning to talk about vaccines as if they contain hidden mines that can explode and kill their children.


Yep. Exactly why I think this topic should not b allowed to b discussed.

If I spent my whole ay posting about my research proving that.the moon was made of green cheese- eventually readers would entertain the idea.

These anti- vaxers seriously spend their whole day posting noneesense
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imasoftov




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 3:29 am
Yael wrote:
full study:
https://pediatrics.aappublicat.....e20171117?

I'm not sure the paper meant a discussion-only site like this one when it talks about "a Web site with vaccine information and interactive social media components (VSM)". Further down, the paper says "The theoretical basis for the VSM intervention was the multidirectional communication model, a social marketing strategy with 3 components. Component 1 is a standard, top-down process in which Web site developers create and present content to users. Component 2 is a bottom-up process that allows users to create content and interact with Web site developers. Component 3 is a side-to-side process in which users can interact with each other and share information."

It seems to me that we only have component 3 here.

Now again, I'm not arguing for banning the vaccine discussion, nor am I insisting that this site gets components 1 and 2 (let alone volunteering to do be involved in that). I'm merely skeptical that this paper provides a reason to be optimistic that the discussion here will have the same effect as observed in the paper.

I'm also interested what happens in components 2 and 3 when someone posts anti-vax material. What happens if anti-vaxers use the feature of #2 "that allows users to create content" or post in discussions in #2 whether they're arguing their position or posting an announcement of the local equivalent of the Monsey Atrium event. Do their posts get removed? Refuted by an expert? Or is it like Frumteens where people can ask questions but a moderator has the final word, like at Frumteens?

Now I'm wondering if Frumteens ever discussed vaccinations. I only found it mentioned twice (both times by the moderator) and the posts weren't about vaccinations but about exposure to influences so he's not writing about whether to vaccinate or not. His idea about "how vaccines work" in the first source is a bit troubling, however.

1 (2003) "someone whose system is poisoned by tons of toxins will not be effected by a little more (thats how vaccines work), but someone whose system is pure will be hurt by the same amount of poison."

2 (2013) "Pritzus is not like a vaccine where a little prevents a lot ... And even a vaccine, if it is not the proper dose, it can give you the disease." (Jewswithquestions absorbed Frumteens in 2011 and the last post on Jewswithquestions was in 2017).

Actually I'm surprised the subject didn't come up there. There have been vaccination posts here as long as there's been a here, but perhaps the phenomenon was small enough that no children on the site ever brought it up. Or maybe I just didn't find it.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 4:36 am
ectomorph wrote:
You could even ask them to volunteer as subjects tell him the first thing you need to try is giving vaccines


You are so on the ball! Why didn't I think of that?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 4:39 am
gamzehyaavor wrote:
Also hazmat suits.


That's more like it
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 4:58 am
mig100 wrote:
Yep. Exactly why I think this topic should not b allowed to b discussed.

If I spent my whole ay posting about my research proving that.the moon was made of green cheese- eventually readers would entertain the idea.

These anti- vaxers seriously spend their whole day posting noneesense


Actually, if someone had the time to comb through the anti-vaxers' posts and catalog the misinformation that they have tried to pass off as fact, and get an expert to answer the propaganda one piece at a time, websites like this would be extremely valuable for correcting misinformation.
Think how often people come on here to get advice that may be available elsewhere but the poster feels comfortable here. It is the same reason that community immunization events took place in shuls; because the people were comfortable there and therefore likely to participate.

The problem with the anonymous posters is that we can say anything we want when nobody knows who we are but if there was a qualified expert in epidemiology and another in halacha, many of the arguments could be laid to rest.

This doesn't mean, however, that logic or even halacha will make everyone compliant with vaccination mandates because as we see, the anti-vax movement also satisfies a psychological need that following the status quo doesn't, except that for many other people, the vaccine is the newest status symbol.
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 5:52 am
southernbubby wrote:
Actually, if someone had the time to comb through the anti-vaxers' posts and catalog the misinformation that they have tried to pass off as fact, and get an expert to answer the propaganda one piece at a time, websites like this would be extremely valuable for correcting misinformation.
Think how often people come on here to get advice that may be available else.


Bubby- did u miss all the post a where they wrote how the Drs can't compete with their "research"

They think they ( anti -vaxers) ARE the EXPERTS.

Didn't u know doctors don't learn anything for 10 years in medical school othger than propaganda bigpharma give a them??? (sarcasm intended)

U can't have a rational discussions with someone who knows better than everyone else.

Which is why I stopped engaging with them

Imaaoftov- interesting post. I don't either think this site is at all what the study was referring to.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 6:15 am
mig100 wrote:
Bubby- did u miss all the post a where they wrote how the Drs can't compete with their "research"

They think they ( anti -vaxers) ARE the EXPERTS.

Didn't u know doctors don't learn anything for 10 years in medical school othger than propaganda bigpharma give a them??? (sarcasm intended)

U can't have a rational discussions with someone who knows better than everyone else.

Which is why I stopped engaging with them

Imaaoftov- interesting post. I don't either think this site is at all what the study was referring to.


I get what you are saying because 2000 people spent time and money this past Monday night listening to a line up of cult leaders spewing conspiracy theories.

At the same time, let's estimate that 5% are open minded enough to be willing to leave the cult and reaching out to them may result in them leaving the cult and taking others with them.

Is it worth it to reach out to those on the fringe?
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ggdm




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 7:25 am
southernbubby wrote:
Actually, if someone had the time to comb through the anti-vaxers' posts and catalog the misinformation that they have tried to pass off as fact, and get an expert to answer the propaganda one piece at a time, websites like this would be extremely valuable for correcting misinformation.
There are such pages, e.g. skepticalraptor or snopes. I am sure there is one specifically about vaccines by now. But they are not frum.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 8:18 am
Guys look up the flat earth society to see what kind of nonsense people are capable of convincing themselves of if they try hard enough.
Also UFOs
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 8:39 am
ggdm wrote:
There are such pages, e.g. skepticalraptor or snopes. I am sure there is one specifically about vaccines by now. But they are not frum.


If the myths are dealt with separately on those sites, then are people going to research all of them?
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 8:46 am
southernbubby wrote:
If the myths are dealt with separately on those sites, then are people going to research all of them?


They will "research" whatever supports their "religious beleifs"

That's what I've learned
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giselle




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 9:27 am
Zehava wrote:
Guys look up the flat earth society to see what kind of nonsense people are capable of convincing themselves of if they try hard enough.
Also UFOs


Scientology.
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 11:19 am
Zehava wrote:
Guys look up the flat earth society to see what kind of nonsense people are capable of convincing themselves of if they try hard enough.
Also UFOs


How about the theory about the lizard people? Look it up if you need a laugh.
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 17 2019, 11:22 am
giselle wrote:
Scientology.


A scientologist was an honored guest at the recent conference in Monsey. Maybe they'll invite David Icke next time.
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