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If you don’t vaccinate
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amother




Ginger


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:54 am
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
That was nasty. I actually have homeschooled multiple times. I most certainly can "handle" my kids. I hope you can, also, when it is in their best interest.

No, I gave the MMR because I am willing to tolerate a certain level of risk to my own children to prevent them from possibly giving measles (which is unusually contagious) to others.

I'm still an anti-vaxxer, though.


I wasn't saying that all those who vaccinate are inconsiderate, but the polarization of this debate seems to try to be painting those who vaccinate as the epitome of good, and those who find vaccinating of questionable benefit as the epitome of evil. I was pointing out that there are inconsiderate vaxxers AND anti-vaxxers. We're all a mixed bag. That was addressing the premise of the OP, who seemed to feel that you have no right to avoid vaccination unless you are a perfect paragon of holistic and natural health.

The same way I don't say "since you spread RSV, don't take the MMR", it is unfair to say "if you use plastic, you MUST take the MMR." They are separate issues.


Your post describes me.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:59 am
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
If you DO vaccinate, do you:

Consider yourself immune to everything, so feel free to go to work with a fever?
Pass around RSV to newborns because since there is no vaccine it is nothing to worry about?
Take your small babies around and expose them to everyone's germs because hey, they're vaccinated?
Treat your doctor's words as divine and never do your own research?

Is vaccinating PART of a life where you take normal hishtadlus and are considerate of others, or the ONLY thing you do to be considerate of others?

Life isn't all black and white.

(All my kids that were old enough got the MMR.)


Nope.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:59 am
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
Most items in my home are free of chemicals and hormones etc.
Besides, vaccines go straight into the blood stream without bypassing the natural barriers


Vaccines do not "go straight into the blood stream." Actually, doing so would not result in the development of appropriate immunity because many antigens in blood would destroy them. Therefore, vaccines are injected into tissue such as muscle tissue where they can travel from lymph to lymph where we have the appropriate immune system cells (ie b cells) that can develop proper immunity.
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miami85




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 12:11 pm
nchr wrote:
Vaccines do not "go straight into the blood stream." Actually, doing so would not result in the development of appropriate immunity because many antigens in blood would destroy them. Therefore, vaccines are injected into tissue such as muscle tissue where they can travel from lymph to lymph where we have the appropriate immune system cells (ie b cells) that can develop proper immunity.


I was going to say the same thing. Also doesn't the liver filter our blood? Alcohol goes into the blood, tylenol goes into the blood and is filtered out by the liver.

I love my children dearly, and I moved so this is ISN'T my problem, but I just found out that the potential preschools that I would've enrolled my child in were shut down due to the measles epidemic. My husband and I work full-time, if we were still living where we were, we would've been sending my 3 yr -old to a preschool so that we could work. If this child were to suddenly have no place to go, we would not have been able to afford a full-day babysitter. As much as I want my children to make healthy choices, short of putting them on a leash--which is unethical, illeagal etc., how can I control where they go and what they do. Children are notorious for going AGAINST what their parents say. Thus, making the decision for the child when they are too young to understand can provide a peace of mind for when they are old enough to make dumb decisions but not old enough to know better. My parents made a non-vaccinating-related health choice for me to "spare me pain and discomfort" when I was a young child, but now as an adult its causing me issues and its considered an "elective procedure" with a longer and more painful recovery than for a child. As a working mother of young children, how do I "elect" to put myself through a procedure that will curtail me for at least 2 weeks?
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 2:43 pm
What did OP mean?
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 2:51 pm
OP meant that many other things also carry some element of risk, such as exposure to cellphone radiation, genetically modified food, etc. - not only vaccinations. Presumably the intent was that if you don't do all of the above to protect your children's health, you have no right to state that you are protecting your children's health by not vaccinating.

I disagree with that premise, but that seems to be her point.
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yksraya




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 2:53 pm
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
I was answering the OP's question.

If you can't take the heat, don't fuel the fire!

When you post on a thread, anyone can respond, not only the OP.
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amother




Pearl


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 3:21 pm
yksraya wrote:
If you can't take the heat, don't fuel the fire!

When you post on a thread, anyone can respond, not only the OP.


Except we should stay on point...
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yksraya




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 3:25 pm
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
Except we should stay on point...

Yeah yeah of course, not to derail the thread. Just called you out for something that was not the nicest thing to answer when someone responds to your post. Besides for it kinda shows on low self esteem.
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 10:48 pm
duplicate

Last edited by gamzehyaavor on Tue, May 14 2019, 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Peach


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 10:49 pm
meme6 wrote:
So if your child needed chemo which we all know is curing but yet toxic for the body would you still do it?

I'm going to answer on this one. and ill do it with my sn (though I might change it)
YES, as a mom to a kid who gets chemo & personally administers toxic meds daily, I tell you yes.
and to the poster who wrote how you can compare as one is preventative & one is to treat a life threatening condition- well, #1- that's not always the case.
Number 2- the point is that you WEIGH THE PROS & CONS and 3) you TRUST YOUR DOCTOR

When in an outbreak- the smart thing is to get your kids (and possibly yourself) inoculated with MMR vaccine.


Last edited by amother on Wed, May 15 2019, 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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momsrus




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 10:51 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
That was nasty. I actually have homeschooled multiple times. I most certainly can "handle" my kids. I hope you can, also, when it is in their best interest.

No, I gave the MMR because I am willing to tolerate a certain level of risk to my own children to prevent them from possibly giving measles (which is unusually contagious) to others.

I'm still an anti-vaxxer, though.

I wasn't saying that all those who vaccinate are inconsiderate, but the polarization of this debate seems to try to be painting those who vaccinate as the epitome of good, and those who find vaccinating of questionable benefit as the epitome of evil. I was pointing out that there are inconsiderate vaxxers AND anti-vaxxers. We're all a mixed bag. That was addressing the premise of the OP, who seemed to feel that you have no right to avoid vaccination unless you are a perfect paragon of holistic and natural health.

The same way I don't say "since you spread RSV, don't take the MMR", it is unfair to say "if you use plastic, you MUST take the MMR." They are separate issues.


What I said may not be true for you, but it’s true for a lot of people. They gave the mmr because they couldn’t handle their kids home.
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 10:59 pm
So if someone only vaccinates during an outbreak, what they're basically saying is that they're perfectly fine relying on all of us sheeple (insert evil laugh here) to keep them safe from disease. During a widespread outbreak, they decide that vaccination is the more prudent choice because the wall of protection we've built with our immunity clearly isn't as solid as it should be because too many people made that same selfish choice.

You can keep on trying to benefit from a system you're not willing to contribute to, but the day of reckoning eventually comes. It's here, now.
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:00 pm
youngishbear wrote:
So if someone only vaccinates during an outbreak, what they're basically saying is that they're perfectly fine relying on all of us sheeple (insert evil laugh here) to keep them safe from disease. During a widespread outbreak, they decide that vaccination is the more prudent choice because the wall of protection we've built with our immunity clearly isn't as solid as it should be because too many people made that same selfish choice.

You can keep on trying to benefit from a system you're not willing to contribute to, but the day of reckoning eventually comes. It's here, now.

Listen, at least that. give credit where credit is due...
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:06 pm
I do think OP has a point, whether you want to compare or not. But if you're hocking against aluminum and then rely on bekelach all the time and you use an aluminum based deodorant, then I'm not buying your excuse of adjuvants you're concerned of.
Same to to all other toxins floating around our universe. We are so overloaded with them that Hashem should be Shomer umatzel from them all- and let's use the good "toxin" so we can get some immunity to avoid widespread diseases.

If you feel that you mamesh can't handle all these toxins- then you might want to contact a real estate agent out on the islands where you can live a preservative/chemical/toxin free life gezinterheit till 120 years (hey, maybe even more because you'll be healthier then us all LOL LOL )
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:08 pm
momsrus wrote:
What I said may not be true for you, but it’s true for a lot of people. They gave the mmr because they couldn’t handle their kids home.

That's how racism works. Grouping people and making negative assumptions about them based on behavior of others in the group you made.

In this case, it also may have nothing to do with willingness or ability to handle children at home, vs. seeing first-hand that the potential emotional damage to their children from the hatefest going on was more compelling than the potential physical damage from the vaccine.

Of course, you can be proud of yourself for that. Because the only way you can convince someone is to hate them enough that they capitulate. Not like, with actual discussion, hearing what they have to say and showing them how other factors may override their otherwise valid concerns.

Reminds me of a hospital I once saw advertised: "I believe in _____ Medical Center!" Because if you ever actually went there, you knew that trust was impossible (it was a lousy hospital), but belief at least can transcend logic.
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amother




Lemon


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:10 pm
gamzehyaavor wrote:
I do think OP has a point, whether you want to compare or not. But if you're hocking against aluminum and then rely on bekelach all the time and you use an aluminum based deodorant, then I'm not buying your excuse of adjuvants you're concerned of.
Same to to all other toxins floating around our universe. We are so overloaded with them that Hashem should be Shomer umatzel from them all- and let's use the good "toxin" so we can get some immunity to avoid widespread diseases.

If you feel that you mamesh can't handle all these toxins- then you might want to contact a real estate agent out on the islands where you can live a preservative/chemical/toxin free life gezinterheit till 120 years (hey, maybe even more because you'll be healthier then us all LOL LOL )

pans and deodorant are a choice. for now
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amother




Ginger


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:13 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

In this case, it also may have nothing to do with willingness or ability to handle children at home, vs. seeing first-hand that the potential emotional damage to their children from the hatefest going on was more compelling than the potential physical damage from the vaccine.


This was one of the reasons I gave the MMR to my previously unvaccinated kids.
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:13 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
pans and deodorant are a choice. for now

And, meaning?
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, May 14 2019, 11:32 pm
[quote="FranticFrummie"]
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
If you DO vaccinate, do you:

Consider yourself immune to everything, so feel free to go to work with a fever?
Pass around RSV to newborns because since there is no vaccine it is nothing to worry about?
Take your small babies around and expose them to everyone's germs because hey, they're vaccinated?
No, I don't do any of those things.

Treat your doctor's words as divine and never do your own research?
Of course not. B'H for the internet, so I can make my own decisions.

Is vaccinating PART of a life where you take normal hishtadlus and are considerate of others, or the ONLY thing you do to be considerate of others?
We are partners with Hashem, and He makes the final decisions. [/quote="amother [ Burgundy ]"]


Why are you amother?


If you can base your information off the internet, then why on Earth is it a problem if anti vaxxers do so? Never mind the fact that there are books on the truths.
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