Home

What is going on with vaping in Lakewood?
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Ivory


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 8:15 am
ectomorph wrote:
Kids need to rebel in every generation. Just think back to your own high school class.


When I was 16, my very strict and involved parents couldn't do anything to stop me from smoking, getting high, or drinking. It wasn't their fault, and there's nothing they could have done to prevent it. I knew exactly what I was doing, and knew that society and my parents considered it wrong.
Back to top

ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 8:27 am
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
When I was 16, my very strict and involved parents couldn't do anything to stop me from smoking, getting high, or drinking. It wasn't their fault, and there's nothing they could have done to prevent it. I knew exactly what I was doing, and knew that society and my parents considered it wrong.

Exactly. The adults need to push back, but I don't judge their failure as a failure of educating the kids. The kids know it's wrong. They just want to do it anyway.

Most of the kids will grow up to be normal healthy adults who conform to society.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 8:39 am
ectomorph wrote:

Most of the kids will grow up to be normal healthy adults who conform to society.


There's this thing called reverse peer pressure. What made you "cool" in your teens, makes you a "bum" in your 20's.

If you don't grow up, get your act together, and get a job, then the people around you will all look down on you. Suddenly, being responsible is what's trendy.
Back to top

Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:09 am
So sad.

I was recently told twice in two weeks by people I respect that I'm lucky I don't have sons. Yikes. I don't necessarily agree with them, but boy, maybe this thread is part of why they said that.
Back to top

mommish613




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:16 am
This is NOT solely a Lakewood issue. It’s very prevalent in many many yeshivos in Brooklyn and other areas as well, unfortunately. It’s a teenage boy issue.
Back to top

amother




Khaki


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:21 am
ectomorph wrote:
Exactly. The adults need to push back, but I don't judge their failure as a failure of educating the kids. The kids know it's wrong. They just want to do it anyway.

Most of the kids will grow up to be normal healthy adults who conform to society.


There will always be teenagers pushing the limits, that's not unexpected. What saddens me is where parents and schools choose to make the rules absolute, and where they choose to turn a blind eye. So vaping, which evidence shows is physically unsafe, became something they're turning a blind eye to. But those same parents and yeshivas would never, ever tolerate a less "yeshivish" version of teenage rebellion, such as having a (relatively) stylish haircut. It's a very skewed message.
Back to top

Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:23 am
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
There will always be teenagers pushing the limits, that's not unexpected. What saddens me is where parents and schools choose to make the rules absolute, and where they choose to turn a blind eye. So vaping, which evidence shows is physically unsafe, became something they're turning a blind eye to. But those same parents and yeshivas would never, ever tolerate a less "yeshivish" version of teenage rebellion, such as having a (relatively) stylish haircut. It's a very skewed message.


I'm probably hopelessly naive, but I'm not sure how vaping is "yeshivish".

I guess, 100 years ago everyone used to smoke. They didn't know how harmful it was. I think the same will be with vaping eventually.....
Back to top

little neshamala




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:24 am
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
There will always be teenagers pushing the limits, that's not unexpected. What saddens me is where parents and schools choose to make the rules absolute, and where they choose to turn a blind eye. So vaping, which evidence shows is physically unsafe, became something they're turning a blind eye to. But those same parents and yeshivas would never, ever tolerate a less "yeshivish" version of teenage rebellion, such as having a (relatively) stylish haircut. It's a very skewed message.


Bingo.

Maybe if we came out with internet enabled vapes, they would do something about it.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:28 am
Chayalle wrote:
I'm probably hopelessly naive, but I'm not sure how vaping is "yeshivish".

I guess, 100 years ago everyone used to smoke. They didn't know how harmful it was. I think the same will be with vaping eventually.....


Chayalle, they still smoke plenty, don't kid yourself.

My son pointed out that nicotine on its own is not cancer causing, I googled it and it seems he's right. But there are plenty of other problems with them, according to this link:

https://www.health.harvard.edu.....6072510010

My son and I read this together. It was informative for both of us.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:36 am
I think there's more to teenage vaping than what we are looking at. As parents, of course we are worried about health risks.

Still, I think that vaping is much more of a social connector, a way of "hanging out" without having to go to a pizza place. Nobody hangs out to chew nicotine gum or wear a nicotine patch. It's all about the shared experience, the casual chatting, and some down time.

There is something soothing about breathing in slowly, and breathing out slowly. These kids may feel otherwise socially isolated, and want to fit in, or maybe they are trying to self medicate for anxiety. People don't do things in a vacuum, there's always a motivating factor behind the behavior.
Back to top

kugelzlady




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 9:37 am
Nicotine is highly addictive. Also, research shows that many young teenagers do not actually know what they are vaping. They might think it is just flavored juice, but more likely than not there is also high levels of nicotine. Vaping is great for people who are trying to stop smoking cigarettes. For young teenagers, it is a dangerous hobby that can quickly become an addiction. And it’s not just the boys we need to worry about!
Back to top

amother




Pearl


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 10:25 am
My son is 12. He says some boys his age vape.

I think parents can help avoid this: by talking about the dangers if it from when the child is as young as 3.
Back to top

amother




OP


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 10:38 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
My son is 12. He says some boys his age vape.

I think parents can help avoid this: by talking about the dangers if it from when the child is as young as 3.


Do you have proven facts/ real life stories about the dangers?
At this point telling the boys that it is not good for them is not enough.
In their immature minds, if everyone is doing it- what can be wrong?
Back to top

BatyaEsther




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 11:39 am
You know that they don't just vape flavored juice or even "just nicotine".
Marijuana can be vaped (THC oil), and can be more potent that way then when smoked.

I commend the mother who pulled her kid out of the school when a Rebbi condoned this behavior.
Back to top

amother




OP


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 11:47 am
BatyaEsther wrote:

I commend the mother who pulled her kid out of the school when a Rebbi condoned this behavior.


As parents, how would we know beforehand which yeshivas turn their heads and allow it and which don’t?
Often by the time we hear of a problem, it’s a bit too late.

I’m curious if anyone can tell me about Lakewood schools that DONT have this issue.
How about yeshivish boys mesivtas?
Back to top

amother




Turquoise


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 12:01 pm
My 13 yr old that is in a very right wing chassidish cheder in Boro Park tells me some of his classmates vape. Perhaps not in cheder but on the walk on the way home. It's definitely a talk between the kids. I'm horrified.
Thankfully my son says he has no interest in trying it. We are a very vocal anti smoking home. It's in their blood to be disgusted by smoking or anything smoke related. But who's to say my education will be strong enough for him to resist it in the future?
Back to top

amother




Pearl


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 12:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you have proven facts/ real life stories about the dangers?
At this point telling the boys that it is not good for them is not enough.
In their immature minds, if everyone is doing it- what can be wrong?


I explained to my sons that there comes and age when "everyone" does it and it is then super hard to stay away.

I also tell them that those who are addicted wish others are also, therefore they will try to get anyone to join.

And I tell them it's an addiction so it's super hard to stop, even if everyone tells you "it's nothing, I'm planning to stop before I get married" etc.

BH none of my boys smoke or vape. And they admit it was super hard to stay away.
Back to top

amother




Puce


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 12:48 pm
I dont know exactly which boys mesiftas in lkwd dont have smokers at all, but in general I think most boys do not smoke. You have to find out about it. In my sons yeshiva nobody smokes. My nephews and neighbors that are in mesifta do not smoke either.

My son once went to a sleepaway camp that had a learning camp on the same grounds. The learning camp was very yeshivish boys. He told me the smoking situation wasnt normal. I think though, that most of the boys seem to smoke just in camp.

I cannot believe that boys still smoke, my son says that little 9th graders smoke these days (or maybe vape). So horrible.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 12:52 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Do you have proven facts/ real life stories about the dangers?
At this point telling the boys that it is not good for them is not enough.
In their immature minds, if everyone is doing it- what can be wrong?


This trend is very frightening. But who needs an info night about the dangers of this type of toxin when you can fight against other toxins? (leaving that reference at this).

From The Center on Addicion https://www.centeronaddiction......es-harmful

Published: October 2018

Discussions around e-cigarettes and other vaping devices tend to focus on nicotine, which is highly addictive and carries other health risks. But what about nicotine-free options? Many users believe that if they stick to these products, they would only be inhaling harmless water vapor. The truth is, the other chemicals found in e-cigarette liquid, flavorings and aerosols are not safe.

A large number of these chemicals have serious health consequences, including cancer, lung disease, and heart disease. A recent study found five cancer-causing toxins in the urine of 16-year-olds who inhaled e-cigarette vapor. If they also smoked cigarettes, the levels were even higher. Another study found that some e-cigarettes release formaldehyde, a possible carinogen, when heated and inhaled.

According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), inhalation of chemicals found in most flavored e-cigarettes that were examined in one study is associated with respiratory disease. Diacetyl, for example, is a chemical added to food to produce a buttery taste and is harmless when ingested this way. But when heated up and then inhaled, diacetyl has been linked to a respiratory disease called bronchiolitis obliterans, which is also known as “popcorn lung,” which first appeared in workers who inhaled artificial butter flavor in microwave popcorn processing facilities. Diacetyl and other chemical flavorings found in e-juice may be considered safe to ingest in small quantities, but are dangerous when inhaled deeply and repeatedly into the lungs.

Another study evaluated 40 e-cigarette refill liquids and found toxic levels regardless of nicotine content. The toxicity seemed to be associated with the number and concentration of chemicals used in the flavoring. Though the toxicity of e-liquids varied depending on brand and flavor, this and a number of other studies found that cinnamon flavored e-cigarettes have the greatest potential health risk.

Regardless of nicotine levels, there is good reason to be concerned about the effects of the toxic chemicals found in e-cigarettes. With or without nicotine, the evidence to date suggests that e-cigarettes and other vaping devices are not risk free.

And from Yale - https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/teen-vaping/
On December 18, Surgeon General Jerome Adams issued a rare advisory—the fourth in 10 years—from his office. “I am officially declaring e-cigarette use [vaping] among youth an epidemic in the United States,” Dr. Adams said.

The numbers are startling. Eleven percent of high school seniors, 8 percent of 10th-graders, and 3.5 percent of eighth-graders reported vaping with nicotine in a one month period, according to a national survey released from the University of Michigan late last year. The worrying part? Young people think vaping is mostly harmless.

To understand vaping, it’s best to start on broad terms. To vape is to inhale vapor created from a liquid heated up inside a device. From there, things quickly get complicated. The devices have many names—vape pens, pod mods, tanks, electronic nicotine delivery devices (ENDS), e-hookahs and e-cigarettes. The liquid they contain also has many monikers—it might be called e-juice, e-liquid, cartridges, pods, or oil. Most vape liquids contain a combination of propylene glycol or glycerol—also called glycerin—as a base, and nicotine, marijuana, or flavoring chemicals to produce common or outlandish flavors, from mint to “unicorn puke.” The devices rely on batteries to power heating elements made of various materials that aerosolize the liquid.

What’s more, manufacturers of a specific type of vaping device, called a “pod mod,” sell vape liquid made from nicotine salts found in loose-leaf tobacco instead of the traditional free-base nicotine found in most e-cigarette liquid. This may allow the user to experience a higher—and more addictive—concentration of nicotine, according to a recent article in The New England Journal of Medicine.

Since e-cigarettes arrived in the U.S. in 2007, they have been investigated by addiction researchers as possible cessation devices for adults trying to quit combustible, or regular, cigarettes. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists 93 harmful or potentially harmful chemicals found in regular cigarettes, and the National Cancer Institute (NCI) describes cigarettes as having more than 7,000 chemicals in them. E-cigarettes contain fewer chemicals and so the industry has presented them as a healthier alternative to regular cigarettes. But vape liquids can still contain nicotine, a highly addictive drug.

And on one point, Yale health researchers who study the health effects of vaping and e-cigs agree: Vape devices have not been proven to help adult smokers quit smoking. Moreover, vaping increases the risk a teen will smoke regular cigarettes later.

“The addiction to nicotine and later conversion to (or dual use with) regular cigarettes are the greatest concerns,” says Roy S. Herbst, MD, Yale Medicine’s chief of medical oncology at Yale Cancer Center. He points to two heavyweight organizations, the American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) and the American Association for Cancer Research (AACR), that have issued statements that vaping could be harmful to youth. (Dr. Herbst chairs the AACR Tobacco & Cancer Subcommittee that led the development of the statement.)

One particular brand, called the Juul, a “pod mod” device, is worrying to addiction researchers. Juuls arrived late to the e-cigarette market in 2015, about eight years after vaping devices first began appearing in the United States. But the company, called Juul Labs, has surged ahead of competitors. In August, Juul accounted for 72 percent of the e-cig market, according to news reports. Sleek and slim, with an appearance that mirrors a flash drive, the Juul has been established among youth as the vaping tool of choice. Teens even morphed the brand into a verb—juuling—according widespread news coverage chronicling its rise. “When we ask teens about their vaping or e-cig habits, they don’t even consider juuling to be part of that,” says Suchitra Krishnan-Sarin, PhD, co-leader of the Yale Tobacco Center for Regulatory Science, one of 14 centers in the country funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the FDA to foster tobacco regulatory research.

The San Francisco-based company, and other vape manufacturers, including Vuse, MarkTen XL, blu e-cigs, and Logic, are under scrutiny by the FDA for marketing and sales practices that seem aimed at teens and young adults, according to an announcement the FDA released on Sept. 12. “The agency is asking each company to submit to the FDA within 60 days plans describing how they will address the widespread youth access and use of their products,” the news release states.

“We cannot allow a whole new generation to become addicted to nicotine,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, MD, says in the release.

Surgeon General Adams shares similar concerns, which he outlined in a news conference following the Dec. 18 release of his advisory: “The number one reason young people say they try these devices is because they have flavors in them,” Dr. Adams says, noting that e-cigarettes come in kid-friendly flavors.

While it’s possible to buy liquid without nicotine for some e-cigarettes, it’s not possible to do so with popular pod mod devices. According to Juul’s website—in a description that has since been taken down—a single Juulpod contains 40 mg of nicotine, which is similar to “the nicotine yield of a pack of cigarettes.” (The company also sells Juulpods with approximately 23 mg of nicotine.) But researchers explain that it’s difficult to describe a single pod as a “serving.” A person might consume one pod in a week, while another may take only one day.

A stubborn trend
When potentially risky behaviors experience an uptick in popularity, health researchers are never far behind—gathering data. This year, Krishnan-Sarin and others found a direct link between students at public schools in Connecticut who said they’d used an e-cigarette in the past month and those who went on to smoke regular cigarettes.

Krishnan-Sarin points to progress that has been made—finally—in recent years to reduce regular cigarette smoking rates among young adults. In her opinion, the significant decline is due to the success of large-scale public health campaigns and a general awareness among youth that cigarettes are harmful to health.

She is concerned that most teens who vape with nicotine don’t know the drug can be damaging to their development. “We have a lot of evidence showing that the adolescent brain is extremely sensitive to the effects of nicotine,” she says, adding that the brain doesn’t stop growing until around age 25. “Studies have shown us that nicotine can interfere with memory and attention processing.”

In his imaging studies of adults who use e-cigarettes, Stephen Baldassarri, MD, an internist at Yale Medicine, has begun to gather information on the factors that influence nicotine delivery from e-cigarettes and whether vaping promotes cessation from conventional cigarette smoking. Teens cannot participate in such studies, but “we all agree that e-cigs are not a good thing for youth and nonsmokers,” Dr. Baldassarri says.

How to talk to your kids
Probably the worst thing a parent could do for their child would be to buy an e-cigarette under the misconception that this might prevent them from smoking regular cigarettes, Krishnan-Sarin says. She encourages parents to talk openly and freely about vaping—with the caveat that they provide accurate information. “I think the problem is that parents lose credibility if they say something to try and convince their child, who then finds out that it isn’t true,” she says.
"Parents should base their information on accurate facts and also encourage their children to read about and understand the science on this issue instead of relying on what their friends and peers tell them."

Dr. Baldassarri suggests explaining the addictive nature of vaping, which would mess with the one thing teens crave the most: independence. “In some ways, when you get addicted to a drug, it’s like losing your freedom of choice,” he says. “The risk of losing that freedom might be a persuasive message for kids.”

Deepa Camenga, MD, a pediatrician who is board-certified in addiction medicine, says it’s never too early to begin talking about e-cigarettes in age-appropriate language. “When you are out and about with your children and see an advertisement, for example, take the opportunity to talk about it,” she says. As they grow older, parents can expand on their thoughts and expectations. “It’s also important to give teens and young adults the space to ask questions,” she says.

Patrick O’Connor, MD, Yale Medicine’s chief of general internal medicine, who has dedicated his career to researching opioid and alcohol drug abuse, points to similarities between epidemic cigarette use in the 1940s and 50s, and e-cigarette use now.

Even as evidence accumulated on the link between lung cancer and cigarette use, doctors didn’t always take time to talk to patients about those risks, he says. “I think it’s a major responsibility of physicians, family medicine doctors, pediatricians, and adolescent medicine practitioners. One of the big deficits in medical education has been to prepare medical students to address these issues with their patients, ask them about their use of these substances, and advise them on the risks,” Dr. O’Connor says. “This is as true for e-cigarette use and vaping as it is for alcohol and other drug use.”

What may be the most important message of all is that e-cigarettes and vaping come with many health unknowns, Dr. O’Connor adds. “You see plumes of what looks like steam coming out of people’s mouths on the street when they are vaping, and I think they assume it’s mostly safe, mostly water. But these liquids used in vaping are filled with all kinds of stuff [like nicotine, marijuana, flavoring agents, chemicals], and we don’t always know what else is in there,” he says.

Surgeon General Adams echoed these concerns in his news conference following the release of his advisory: “Studies show that youth, like my son, have no clue what's in these products most of the time.”

To learn more, go to yalemedicine.org.
Back to top

amother




Ivory


Post  Wed, May 15 2019, 1:45 pm
A huge amount of the vape juice, especially the stuff online, is made in China. We all know that consumer safety is not at the top of concerns there.

There are a few small companies that hand blend juice with organic, food grade ingredients, but they are very expensive, and I doubt the average 13yo is going to bother to check into it and make an informed decision.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 2 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Oral surgeon recomendations Lakewood NJ or surrounding areas
by amother
10 Thu, May 23 2019, 11:27 pm View last post
G.O. Head and "Jobs" in Lakewood high-schools - Favoritism??
by amother
111 Thu, May 23 2019, 9:24 pm View last post
Nutritionist - Lakewood
by amother
17 Wed, May 22 2019, 2:40 pm View last post
Question for mothers of Lakewood high school girls
by amother
260 Tue, May 21 2019, 10:08 pm View last post
Swimming lessons lakewood
by amother
1 Mon, May 20 2019, 11:12 pm View last post

Jump to: