What is going on with vaping in Lakewood?

naturalmom5

Thu, May 16 2019, 4:30 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Hm... why do parents tolerate it? Read some responses on this thread and you'll know why. It's because it's "not in MY son's yeshivah", that's one reason. Also, parents may be misinformed as to how dangerous this is. Seriously. I had a conversation with my son about this and he claims it's completely fine, there are absolutely NO health issues.

Maybe you can be the one to spread awareness.

As long as they wear their hat and they aren't on the internet
I had a laugh yesterday at the article study the science behind it with your children
Most very yeshivish parents in Lakewood would prefer their children to snort crack than study science

amother

Cobalt

Thu, May 16 2019, 4:41 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I'm not that amother, but my son is in what is considered one of the top yeshivos and he says some boys vape. He could be exaggerating - it could be one of two - but I would rather face facts then put my head in the sand. But to each his (her) own!

There's literally no way to respond to this post.

I asked him, he said he doesn't know anyone who's doing it. How is that putting my head in the sand? I'll add, his yeshiva is local so he comes home every night. Dh and I refused to consider a dorming situation for him specifically so that we can see him every night and stay involved in his life.

amother

cornflower

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:20 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I'm not ok with a lot of stuff my kids do. One of my kids smokes (hes over 18) - I'm not ok with that at all. Doesnt seem to matter.

I hear you and I’m in the same boat. I have a 19 year old and even though I’m not ok with it he does it anyway. Recently I found a box of e-cigs and liquid hidden behind my 16 year olds bed. So now I have 2 of them that do it😡
Teens find ways to get it. I think there are stores or older friends or brothers that get it for them.

My son and his friends were at the mall and were approached by another teen selling juuls and forms of marijuana. I only found out because the other teen stole my sons phone and threatened him with a knife. Obviously I got the police involved and filed a report and statement with my son and his friends. Once the boys started talking to the police, my jaw fell to the floor!!! The stuff these kids know... I was shocked. Also I would never ever have suspected my 16 year old son would smoke and has so much knowledge about the different forms of pot.

This stuff doesn’t discriminate it’s in every school and if you thinks it’s not, you’re kidding yourself.

FYI moms... pot can be in the form of a JUUL pod and be odorless amongst other forms. So we really don’t know.

https://truthinitiative.org/ne.....ettes

amother

Blonde

Thu, May 16 2019, 5:28 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Ok I just read backwards and I see you're not in Lakewood. Hope it doesn't spread to you!

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:13 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Despite your dislike for the community, you know that the above is simply not true.

simcha2

Thu, May 16 2019, 6:32 pm

I've posted this article before, but there are serious halachic issues with vaping. I'd be very concerned about any yeshiva that turns a blind eye to serious violations of theTorah.

https://www.torahweb.org/torah......html

Notsobusy

Thu, May 16 2019, 9:44 pm

I asked my son, he had no idea what vaping is. When I explained it to him he knew what it was, he said a few guys were into it a while ago, but he hasn't seen anyone vaping in a long time. And even those guys hardly ever did it and not in public, so he doesn't think the rosh yeshiva or mashgiach know about it.

I guess like everything else, in some yeshivas it's a bigger problem and in others it's less of a problem. He also said there's practically no smoking in his yeshiva, he said sometimes on Motzei Shabbos he smells cigarettes, but it's also very rare. B"H he's in an amazing yeshiva and I'm so relieved that these things aren't problems.

And for those of you who are going to tell me that "I just don't know" and "of course he wouldn't tell me the truth", he's just not that type of kid. Not the type to have any interest in smoking or vaping or drugs and not the type to lie to me about it, so I do believe him. I wouldn't say that about all of my kids, but definitely about him.

amother

Powderblue

Thu, May 16 2019, 11:02 pm

My 12 yr old DS that goes to a very heimshe Cheder here in Lakewood ( and considered top) just told me tonight that lots of kids in the 7th and 8th grade have them and hide them. He also says that its "normal" for kids at shul to smoke it.. "they get it from their older brothers or other older boys"

groisamomma

Fri, May 17 2019, 1:46 am

Amother Blonde, I discussed your post with DS. He said there's a huge difference when bochurim in a mesivta smoke, some outwardly but many hidden, than when the yeshiva has one or two bochurim that vape and are "known" to be "that type" so the rest of the bochurim look down on it and don't respect them for it. Like Notsobusy, I often take things to him or meet him at mealtimes/recess so I do see the yeshiva grounds fairly regularly and he has, on more than one occasion, pointed out the same 2 bochurim whom everyone knows are the type to do it and they probably do, just not on yeshiva grounds. Point being, Amother Blonde, it is NOT the norm nor admired or accepted by the other bochurim in his yeshiva. More like they are disgusted by it, which suits me just fine.

I'm totally outting myself here. Yesterday his yeshiva had a shiur that's normally for 10-12th graders but the R"Y had the 9th graders participate because it was about smoking and vaping. They addressed not only the halachic aspects, but the physical dangers as well. DS said the boys lined up and asked questions for hours afterwards. One question asked was why Reb Moshe Feinstein held that smoking was allowed (despite the health risks) and today people are so adverse to it. And how is it that smoking is so wrong today but vaping isn't seen by people as so terrible? (I'm probably going to mangle his answer here...) The rav said that when a large group is doing something which only a few voice health concerns about, there's the concept where you can rely on the fact that majority of the klal is doing it and as of yet there are no visible adverse effects so we can assume it's okay. The terrible effects of smoking was not widely known in Reb Moshe's time, therefore he paskened that if the klal is doing it and it didn't appear dangerous (again, before the real risks emerged), despite the misgivings of a few, then it was muttar. However, if he'd been alive today when the risks are so well known, he would pasken that it's totally assur. The same with vaping. Unfortunately, as evidenced by this thread, people are not as aware of the dangers of vaping, and very few mainstream people can point to the side effects definitively (again, I'm not referring to those few individuals that work with addicts regularly), so there's a very large klal that vapes. If one relies on Reb Moshe's basis for allowing smoking in those days, then vaping is still allowed halachically today. However, the rav said while halachically some may hold its okay, m'tzad kavod habrios, middos, v'nishmartem, etc it is absolutely assur.

Amother Blonde, can I guarantee with absolute certainty that nobody vapes in his yeshiva? I'd love to, but it's foolish to make sweeping statements without hard evidence, right? (Such as, there is absolutely no yeshiva where the boys don't vape...). DS has told me that on the first day of yeshiva his R"Y thundered that vaping and causing fires (??) is automatic grounds for expulsion. Knowing the man, I'd be scared too. DS said vigorously that nobody does it at school and he's a sharp and very aware kid. Trust me, if there's something happening he's usually right there.

Anecdotally, I asked a group of young bochurim vaping in Four Corners which yeshiva they were from and sadly they are talmidim at another supposedly "top yeshiva" that dh had considered for him. If I had a dollar for every time someone asked me why we pulled him out of the most sought-after mesivta, I'd buy a mansion by now. The answer won't change: I'll take a "beis yeshiva" and a healthy son than an "alef yeshiva" with such obvious dysfunction.

crust

Fri, May 17 2019, 7:35 am

Groisamomma I agree.

I am going to out myself as well if I explain how I know but yes there's a huge difference between 'almost every boy smokes and nobody cares' or 'the rebels smoke and they are looked down upon and in most cases their parents don't know'.

The point is that every yeshiva has vappers.
It took me a long while to accept this till I figured out that it's the mehalech its taken care of that will be the deciding factor if I want my son there or not.

amother

Blonde

Fri, May 17 2019, 9:06 am

Ok, Groisamama, I was just wondering out loud! No absolute facts here, I certainly didn't check each yeshiva individually. Just to clarify, I meant that there are a few boys in my sons yeshiva (maybe two or three? Not sure), so the boys know what vaping is and are exposed. I did not mean that every single boy vapes or even a majority, or even a minority for that matter, rather that there ARE boys who vape and the boys (at least my son) did not see a problem with it. Unlike drugs such as marijuana which would absolutely not even enter their heads to think it was ok.

I'm actually VERY gratified to hear that the Hanhalah of your sons yeshiva is addressing this directly - perhaps they can come to my sons yeshivah and give some pointers.... AFAIK the hanhala of his yeshivah is not aware. (My son actually thought, along with his friends, that there is nothing really wrong with vaping, as nicotine on its own does not cause cancer, and anyway some of the boys only have "flavored water" - is what he calls it.) I would love if someone would explain to these boys the dangers.