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Now she's immune, but will her baby survive?
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amother




Brunette


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:18 am
youngishbear wrote:
I think this is a matter of choosing whom to trust. If they think the tracking of adverse vaccine reactions is inadequate, I wonder how deeply they looked into the verification of the safety of alternative medicine.

Again, stereotyping that it's the same group of people, but there is certainly at least some overlap.

I always wonder about natural remedies in general. If they believe it's potent enough to bring positive effects, they must admit that its very potency can be dangerous for some people sometimes.


Well don’t be so quick to lump people into groups like that. I’m quite certain there are vaccinators who turn to alternative medicine or chiropractors from time to time too. There are non vaccinators who don’t trust alternative medicine like they don’t trust vaccines and think it’s all cr-p. If you want to judge, You got to learn to look at each person’s situation separately. Some prefer alternative medicine for some things and not other things. Some people choose to use certain pharmeceutal drugs, but will say no to others.
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:19 am
youngishbear wrote:
So you're perfectly happy allowing others to take "risks" on your behalf but refusing to contribute to protecting us all. You do understand that this attitude is what leads to oubreaks in the first place.

If you're going to vaccinate in the end, may as well join the effort to eradicate measles altogether.


Well, if there is no outbreak, I'm not looking to risk myself or my kids. If you want to take risks, that's on you.

I know I will vaccinate in the end, but I just felt that an older kid can handle the viral overload better than a baby. (I was proven wrong on that when I just vaccinated my 7 month old and 2 year old and neither had a reaction)
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too tired




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:26 am
yksraya wrote:
Medical professionals also use vitamins but in addition to other necessary intervention.

As long as the proper care is given, vitamins are ok. But not instead of...


Yeah you still need to research which ones are not too little nature and not irresponsibly natural
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:30 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Well, if there is no outbreak, I'm not looking to risk myself or my kids. If you want to take risks, that's on you.

I know I will vaccinate in the end, but I just felt that an older kid can handle the viral overload better than a baby. (I was proven wrong on that when I just vaccinated my 7 month old and 2 year old and neither had a reaction)


We can go in circles on this question, but I'll ask again. Do you understand that your decision creates the opening for the outbreak in the first place?

(And then, of course, you always have the option of vaccinating before it hits your family, but what about those who don't have that option for legitimate medical or age-related reasons?)
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:38 am
youngishbear wrote:
We can go in circles on this question, but I'll ask again. Do you understand that your decision creates the opening for the outbreak in the first place?

(And then, of course, you always have the option of vaccinating before it hits your family, but what about those who don't have that option for legitimate medical or age-related reasons?)


Not really, because we are hardly the only family that doesn't vaccinate. If people have reasons why they shouldn't get the disease, obviously they should vaccinate... what's your question?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:39 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
Well don’t be so quick to lump people into groups like that. I’m quite certain there are vaccinators who turn to alternative medicine or chiropractors from time to time too. There are non vaccinators who don’t trust alternative medicine like they don’t trust vaccines and think it’s all cr-p. If you want to judge, You got to learn to look at each person’s situation separately. Some prefer alternative medicine for some things and not other things. Some people choose to use certain pharmeceutal drugs, but will say no to others.


No but, the epicenter of the outbreak is here in the Rockland county frum community and it's also a good market for alternative medicine based on ads that I see in grocery store handout magazines. Something is making alternative medicine very lucrative here which is fine unless it plays a role in the spread of measles.
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amother




Blonde


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:39 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
There is a difference between a plague and a perennial childhood disease
Arguing with you guys is literally addictive. It is so worthless though. Everyone's mind is stuck in their own belief.
I already blocked imamother on my laptop. I just need to call my filter company to block it on my tablet too


You have a belief that childhood should include measles, is that correct? That we are supposed to get measles as part of life?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:42 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Not really, because we are hardly the only family that doesn't vaccinate. If people have reasons why they shouldn't get the disease, obviously they should vaccinate... what's your question?


You’re idiocy is astounding. Cancer patients have very good reasons why they shouldn’t get disease, but vaccines are not safe for them. What are they supposed to do? Stay quarantined forever because of a bunch of insane, evil idiots.
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amother




Brunette


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:44 am
southernbubby wrote:
No but, the epicenter of the outbreak is here in the Rockland county frum community and it's also a good market for alternative medicine based on ads that I see in grocery store handout magazines. Something is making alternative medicine very lucrative here which is fine unless it plays a role in the spread of measles.


If you want to use alternative medicine, you’ll figure out a way to use alternative medicine. If it’s not available in Rockland, you’ll drive a little further out and get it somewhere else. You’re actually probably better off going for it somewhere else.
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mommyla




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:44 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Well, if there is no outbreak, I'm not looking to risk myself or my kids. If you want to take risks, that's on you.

I know I will vaccinate in the end, but I just felt that an older kid can handle the viral overload better than a baby. (I was proven wrong on that when I just vaccinated my 7 month old and 2 year old and neither had a reaction)


BUT IF EVERYONE "RISKED THEMSELVES" THERE WOULDN'T BE OUTBREAKS.

Arrrrrrgggggghhh.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:47 am
southernbubby wrote:
The real problem is magical thinking. An anti-vax person that I know embraced one MLM alternative medicine product after another and tried to convince a cancer patient to use blue-green algae instead of chemo but luckily the person with cancer chose the chemo and survived.
This way of thinking is both dangerous and costly but these people are united to save the world against big pharma so they are part of an army with leadership and instant acceptance. It attracts a certain type, kind of like militias and political extremist groups do and I have noticed that some like to gamble. They will blow money that they don't have at auctions and casinos because magical thinkers do that.


Most of the anti-vaxers in the frum community are on Medicaid. It's a specific demographic among the ultra-frum. I think they could care less who profits in medicine.
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:49 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Not really, because we are hardly the only family that doesn't vaccinate. If people have reasons why they shouldn't get the disease, obviously they should vaccinate... what's your question?


But your family is part of the problem instead of the solution.

My question is, do you care?

My actual question was that you have the choice to vaccinate, but some people don't and depend on all of us to do it so they stay safe.

I repeat. Do you care?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 11:52 am
youngishbear wrote:
But your family is part of the problem instead of the solution.

My question is, do you care?

My actual question was that you have the choice to vaccinate, but some people don't and depend on all of us to do it so they stay safe.

I repeat. Do you care?


No she doesn’t. She’s a selfish person with limited reasoning abilities. The truth is maybe I shouldn’t be so mad at her. It’s not her fault she has limited mental capabilities.
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amother




Brunette


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 12:33 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
What you do believe in is sacrificing people for no reason at all. That’s amazing.

You are mentally ill. Nothing can help you except some serious psychological intervention or G-d forbid one of your loved ones dying or having serious complications from the measles.


This is disrespectful and it doesn’t help. Embarrassing people to shut down communication is not the answer. There are better ways to get your point across.
Here you are feeling bad for an infant that was born early fighting for life in an anti vax family and wishing death on another anti vax family.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:01 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
This is disrespectful and it doesn’t help. Embarrassing people to shut down communication is not the answer. There are better ways to get your point across.
Here you are feeling bad for an infant that was born early fighting for life in an anti vax family and wishing death on another anti vax family.


I said G-d forbid it should happen. That’s not a wish for death.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:02 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Most of the anti-vaxers in the frum community are on Medicaid. It's a specific demographic among the ultra-frum. I think they could care less who profits in medicine.


One health food store was selling an expensive trio of herbs that was being sold as either a preventative or a cure for measles. Could it be that Medicaid patients still manage to fork over $$$ for this nonsense?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 1:06 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
If you want to use alternative medicine, you’ll figure out a way to use alternative medicine. If it’s not available in Rockland, you’ll drive a little further out and get it somewhere else. You’re actually probably better off going for it somewhere else.


My point is that the frum community spends a lot of money on alternative medicine and some alternative medicine practitioners are anti-vaxers.
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amother




Mint


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:11 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
There is a difference between a plague and a perennial childhood disease
Arguing with you guys is literally addictive. It is so worthless though. Everyone's mind is stuck in their own belief.
I already blocked imamother on my laptop. I just need to call my filter company to block it on my tablet too

If you have such an issue why block it don't log on Scratching Head What I can sorta but not really understand not vaxing and hoping herd immunity saves your child from these diseases. But thinking it good and healthy for your child to contract these diseases just boggles my mind. Measles chicken pox and others is considered a childhood disease because this disease is the children were passing around not because a child needs to get them!!
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amother




Mint


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:23 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
My two cents for what it's worth;

I'm pro-choice. Till it comes to an outbreak.

I agree that if everyone would get the measles as little kids, we would be better off with lifelong immunity. I also understand that we live in 2019 and everyone doesn't get the measles as kids - so vaccines isn't really a choice anymore.
I'm from an "anti-vaxx" family, however, my siblings and myself were all immunized with the MMR as teenagers. Because, since we bH didn't get sick with the measles or rubella (we did all have mumps though, when it was going around about 9 years ago) we don't want to risk catching it as adults... so the risks of the vaccines are lower than the risks of getting sick with these diseases as an adult.
Now, because of the outbreak, I vaccinated my children against MMR.
I'm from the group of people who say that the chance of getting measles is extremely low, so why put "poison" directly into my kids bodies if it's not necessary. That puts the chance of effects from the vaccine at higher than the chance of complications from measles (which is zero if there is no outbreak)
Measles is extremely contagious, and unfortunately there is an outbreak, so we have to live in the times we live in, and reevaluate. Now, the chance of complications from measles is higher than that of complications from the vaccine, so I vaccinated my kids.

I hope the above is understandable for most of you, even if you don't agree. I tried to explain as well as I could... and hope nobody attacks me. Respectful questions are okay, though I can't promise to know all the answers. I'm not an "anti-vaxxer" in the sense that I read all the "research". I just go with what my limited sechel tells me is the right thing to do. And at this point, it told me to vaxx my kids against measles. (I was, obviously, planning to vaxx them all against measles prior to puberty, even without an outbreak)

Not judging just curious if you were going to hold off the MMR till puberty to see if your children get it then why did you vaccinate because the measles are going around ? what's the difference at that point if they got the shot at 1 or at 11
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amother




Blonde


Post  Thu, May 16 2019, 2:32 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
Well, if there is no outbreak, I'm not looking to risk myself or my kids. If you want to take risks, that's on you.

I know I will vaccinate in the end, but I just felt that an older kid can handle the viral overload better than a baby. (I was proven wrong on that when I just vaccinated my 7 month old and 2 year old and neither had a reaction)


And this it the issue. Your feelings about how a baby can handle viruses shouldn't be part of the equation.

"pro choice" is a nice political position. Are you lobbying for it? As current state is: vaccination is required for schooling, 'feeling like' your kid won't handle isn't offered.
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