Enough kids for you!

dancingqueen

Mon, May 27 2019, 5:47 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

wow no pt, ot or speech were ever needed b"H! that makes a huge difference! my oldest child alone has had all three plus vision in the same year! and she's a normal child, with a lisp, limp after broken bone that needed to be addressed, some sensory issues and an eye that turned in affecting her depth perception but she's not a "special needs" kid at all and thankfully currently isn't getting anything but now it's her younger sister's turn to need lots of appointments...

yes the carpooling out of town! I often feel like a taxi and I purposely live somewhere that the close is close but that's not true for other communities.

It’s really a rare kid these days who doesn't needs any therapies ever, multiply that x 12 would be unlikely. Plus, no one is mentioning that the likelihood of having a special needs child go up significantly with a very large family, especially if people keep having children at an older age. That obviously makes things more complicated.

amother

Puce

Mon, May 27 2019, 5:58 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

True. Every neighbor on my block and siblings and in laws family all have at least one kid receiving some sort of therapy as mild as it may be. To have 16 without is really a huge thing. My son has a lisp that needs speech therapy and another has OT for mild sensory issues. That’s 2 out of my 4. If I would have 16 kids with 4 or 5 needing therapies if I’m lucky then I would lose my mind lol

amother

Navy

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:20 pm

right. that's my point. I'm just going to say that Hashem gives each person their "life" and some people he wants to have larger families so he might give them kids with less "issues" , other people he gives the parents more ability to handle the issues...and that's great for them and I don't have to feel bad that Hashem chose to give me a different "life".

Mommyg8

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:28 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Totally agree!

amother

Navy

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:31 pm

I am curious royalblue- how do your kids feel about having such a large family? 3 months 16 times is a lot.
How does it work with only two bathrooms? I realize that we are unusual in the other direction in that one of my children has to sit on the toilet for significant periods of time for a medical reason but still, often seems like everyone has to use the bathroom at the same time and it's not always "quick"

amother

Orchid

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:32 pm

And does Hashem never give large families kids who need therapies?

Or maybe, just maybe, do those needs go unnoticed or neglected because there are too many other things to take care of?

I know many large families that are theoretically managing, but it's glaringly obvious that the kids have needs that are not being taken care of.

No, older siblings are not substitutes for parents.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jul 07 2019, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tangerine

Mon, May 27 2019, 6:46 pm

Listen, I'm not having kids for my own entertainment. I actually believe that this is what Hashem wants me to do.

Now the very same Hashem that gave a mitzvah of Pru Urevu (Ve'al tanech yadecha) also gave me the responsibility to care for those children to the best of my ability.

And that very same Hashem is the One Who gave me a limited set of abilities.

So just like you do, I have to trust that Hashem will send me the ability to notice any issues, and the capabilities to take care of them.

And if I don't notice right away, I have to also trust Hashem that I was doing my best and this is a challenge Hashem is giving this child.

Let us not pretend that children in small families never have undiagnosed issues. I know for one of my kids it took 4 ER visits to get a medical issue diagnosed properly. A different kid took 2, and both were potentially life-threatening. The same Hashem that gave me the wisdom to go back to the hospital again and again may sometimes obscure from me the knowledge that a certain kid might benefit from a certain therapy.

But just so ya know, although I have "too many kids" for imamother standards, I am very aware of my kids individual needs. Which ones need homework help and which are self-motivated, which need different parenting styles than my natural style, which are struggling academically and which need social skills coaching.

None of us doubt that a teacher might be able to keep her finger on the pulse of a class of 15, or that a nurse can manage a hospital wing. Parents can be like that too. Yes, it's a more complex and demanding position, but not superhuman.

amother

Coral

Mon, May 27 2019, 8:58 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

Totally off point but 20 mins for dental cleaning??

When we were kids we went twice a year to the dentist. Took about 2 mins. The dentist checked our teeth and that was it!!! Never had any cleaning done Wink

don’t think we were neglected... I am one of 8 if that helps...

did you grow up in England by any chance? Because thats where I grew up, and I never had a dental cleaning . In fact, the first cleaning I had was as a newly married woman living in the USA!

amother

Ivory

Mon, May 27 2019, 9:22 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

None of us doubt that a teacher might be able to keep her finger on the pulse of a class of 15, or that a nurse can manage a hospital wing. Parents can be like that too. Yes, it's a more complex and demanding position, but not superhuman.

As a teacher of almost thirty years, I can tell you that a teacher can have her finger on the pulse of 15 kids, as you say. But she is not their mother. Mothering and teaching are entirely different.

Also, once the class grows to 30+, she may be able to control and instruct them, but she is only forming real relationships with a few of those kids (usually the troublemakers and the top kids. The two extremes).

I guess I am also cynical because I know quite a few families that kept on having babies (not 16, of course!) and only as the kids entered their teens did many issues come up, and the whole family became overwhelmed.

I have the feeling that a lot of these families raise their kids with benign neglect. Which good kids can thrive on, and if you're lucky, it might work out. But if a few of those kids are needy, or have ADHD, or emotional or behavioral issues- it's a problem.

As for doctors, how do you send a 12 year old to a medical appointment on their own? I cant believe it's legal in the states.

Also, someone mentioned each doing their own laundry. I never understood that. Isnt that a huge waste, to run half empty loads all the time? Also, how would sorting work? Each boy would wash his 4 white shirts on one load, and then his 3 pants on another load?

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 28 2019, 1:44 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Who do you know from today's generation with 16 kids anyway?! Not sure what this hypothetical conversation is all about.

Yes, I personally do. Both are distant family relatives or married into my DH's family.
16 kids (5 boys, the rest girls). Mother has 2 jobs teaching, I don't know what husband does but I guess he is not in kollel. Live in a city. The mother's father is a very well known rosh yeshiva, big yichus, big name.
Also know of one family with 15. Always a SAHM (she is from a wealthy family) husband a very well known Rabbi. She herself is from a 10 kid family, he is from a family of 2 or 3 kids. Live in the city. Also here, a 'brand name family'
EY chareidi circles. The mainstream people don't have these numbers, definitely not! Mainstream have 6-9 IMHO.
Don't forget that they don't come all at once. By the time you marry off child nr one, you are nursing your last one. Something like that.
Addendum: 15 child family: they married off the last one about 2 years ago. 16 kid family: they have married off child nr 1-5. Nr 5 was last year. Guess they are working on shidduchim for nr 6 and 7 this year. (boy and girl). If it fits your criteria of 'today's generation' I don't know.

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 28 2019, 2:03 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

I disagree. People have kids because they really want themselves. If it is your belief that Hashem wants you to do that, then great!
The mitzvah of Pru Urevu is NOT yours - it is your husband's. Read it again: Your Husband's. Not your's.
If you can manage and you are happy then I'm happy for you. Seriously. But there is no need to try to veil your reasons for having a large family. You simply like it very much. Smile

From somebody in EY chareidi circles where 5 is considered to be 'too few'

amother

Ivory

Tue, May 28 2019, 3:08 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Don't forget that they don't come all at once. By the time you marry off child nr one, you are nursing your last one. Something like that.
Addendum: 15 child family: they married off the last one about 2 years ago. 16 kid family: they have married off child nr 1-5. Nr 5 was last year. Guess they are working on shidduchim for nr 6 and 7 this year. (boy and girl). If it fits your criteria of 'today's generation' I don't know.

I realise they dont come all at once, which makes it harder IMO.
Everybody is at different stages and needs different things.

How can a mother who is nursing an infant, and toilet training a toddler, really have time to take her young kallah shopping leisurely?

Different life stages make things very complicated when you have so many, and such a large gap between oldest and youngest. You cant even go on a day trip that will make everyone happy.

In fact, in such families I doubt all the family does something all together very often.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, May 28 2019, 4:13 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I don't think my kids associate the three months off with having a baby tbh. Oftentimes it happened over the summer where everything was more low key and for example, this year over Pesach I had to push myself more than I normally would so it wasn't as noticeable. In general the house is a positive one, and we love little kids and laugh at how cute they are etc. Their friends who have smaller families are jealous too which helps. I really think if you present something as positive and a privilege then that's how the kids will see it. If you are constantly not managing and complaining how hard it is then of course they will see it as a burden.
As far as bathrooms, don't laugh but we actually have a rule that the bathroom on the main floor is for "quick jobs" if you need it for a while then go downstairs...Also, don't forget, the schedule is very staggered. kids start leaving in the morning at 6:30 until 9:30, and then start coming home at 3... the last ones straggle in after 10 when all the little ones are in bed for the night already. Yes, we have had "emergencies" where we were begging someone to come out already, or someone had to go to a neighbor, but by and large it works.
To the mother who said my apartment sounds cheap in BP, I assure you if you saw the condition of my apartment you would agree that I am way overpaying, and 3200 a month is actually pretty standard for a 7 room apartment over here anyway.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, May 28 2019, 4:20 am

dancingqueen wrote:

I don't really agree about the therapy. I don't know many people irl who have children in therapy. In general if your kids walk and talk on time and don't have sensory stuff going on, then they don't need therapy. I don't think it's so rare to find large families where no one needs therapy. Also, if a person has a lot of babies then the risk of special needs is not as pronounced when she reaches her 40s. Something with the unopposed estrogen not piling up in the eggs as much- I don't really understand it but maybe somebody else can explain.

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 28 2019, 4:50 am

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

Guess they take turns. All kids are expected to chip in. Mum goes with kallah while younger sisters babysit. Father goes with older children on a trip, the younger ones at home.
The mindset is different. The idea of 'making everybody happy' is not even possible 2 kids. To make 'everybody happy' at the same time with 16 is probably not on the dictionary. Day trips is not one of their priorities in life. They make Shabbos at home because there is no space to invite all of them for a meal.
By the way, a joke: marrying off a son is like preparing for erev Shabbos. Marrying off a daughter is like making erev Pesach.

Mommyg8

Tue, May 28 2019, 4:56 am

ectomorph wrote:

I'm the one who said I did my own laundry at a young age.

I grew up in a small slightly dysfunctional family, lol. We always wanted more siblings Smile

My kids don't have any idea how to do laundry. In a large family it's more efficient for the parents to do it.

I would think that someone with a very large family has two washing machines. And possibly cleaning help.

My teenagers and up (boys) do their own laundry most of the time. Does that make us dysfunctional?

Mommyg8

Tue, May 28 2019, 5:00 am

dancingqueen wrote:

Therapy for a typically developing child is not so involving. Early intervention in the US is free, and the schools where I live provide therapy in school.

Anyway, some of my kids got PT and OT, but I don't think that's typical. They got speech in school for articulation but honestly I thought it was a waste of time. None of the therapies needed me at all.