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What effect will NYT scandal have on Jews and non-Jews
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:28 am
I'm referring to the scandal in the NYT about a Grand Rabbi.

How will it effect others' opinion of Frum Jews?

Does it matter?
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miri123




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:30 am
what r u talking abt?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:31 am
miri123 wrote:
what r u talking abt?
Google News Grand Rabbi
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ny21




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:41 am
what is this about?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:44 am
it was not so easy to locate. are you speaking of the Bobover's zt"l glasses?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:45 am
Oh, I was just waiting for someone to start this loshon hara thread. Sad
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:51 am
http://www.mercurynews.com/bre.....60897
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faigie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:56 am
ok, im going to comment.
I wont go into detail, but I know of what I speak.
believe nothing about this report.
the DA and his assistants here in NY are virulent anti semites. this is not only my opinion, but the opinion of other jewish orgs who have had to deal with them.
one of the worst ADA is a jewish woman who is one of those self hating jews. this isnt the first time shes had the nerve to go after a rebbe. what she does is manufacture evidence, literally.
last time something like this came up, the president himself pardoned the rebbes, yet she wrote a letter in protest, claiming that the very practice of their religion violates law.
----wicked wicked woman. the rabbanim call her a "chaya ra" they dont even call her human anymore, merely an evil beast.
know the accusations that you read in the papers are trumped up garbage, made to look damning, thereby virtually securing a grand jury indictment with no problem.
believe none of it.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 8:59 am
faigie wrote:

know the accusations that you read in the papers are trumped up garbage, made to look damning, thereby virtually securing a grand jury indictment with no problem.
believe none of it.
Let's all Daven that your right. What's most disturbing is that I've read- which may or may not be true, that the "informer-Moser" is a Frum Jew in LA.

I hope you're right and what I read is wrong.
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chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:00 am
But this is in LA, not NYC.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:01 am
chavamom wrote:
But this is in LA, not NYC.
The Rebbe lives in BP and visits LA.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:03 am
faigie wrote:
ok, im going to comment.
I wont go into detail, but I know of what I speak.
believe nothing about this report.
the DA and his assistants here in NY are virulent anti semites. this is not only my opinion, but the opinion of other jewish orgs who have had to deal with them.
one of the worst ADA is a jewish woman who is one of those self hating jews. this isnt the first time shes had the nerve to go after a rebbe. what she does is manufacture evidence, literally.
last time something like this came up, the president himself pardoned the rebbes, yet she wrote a letter in protest, claiming that the very practice of their religion violates law.
----wicked wicked woman. the rabbanim call her a "chaya ra" they dont even call her human anymore, merely an evil beast.
know the accusations that you read in the papers are trumped up garbage, made to look damning, thereby virtually securing a grand jury indictment with no problem.
believe none of it.


Sorry, but as soon as I hear "believe nothing, the accuser is a self-hating Jew" I don't believe that, either. It's too easy to dismiss someone that way. Calling someone inhuman and an evil beast because she's prosecuting fellow Jews seems totally over-the-top.

I'll wait to hear more about the evidence collected, see what happens in the trial, and then figure out what I think. The fact that the person who gave the evidence was a frum businessman who claims to have been involved in the scheme definitely makes me want to know more about what happened, as this may not look good.
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madys




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:15 am
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in the frum world, and on this forum also, who try and cheat the government by not paying taxes, by collecting wic, by under reporting their income, by collecting section 8.

Then, when the government catches them, everyone complains.

I can't comment on this case in particular, but it is a sad day to be a frum jew because it reflects negatively on all of us.
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faigie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:25 am
clarissa, you can believe it or not, but I know this system well. I know the people and I know the players. I am simply not permitted to go into any more detail then that, but as an interviewer, if you dig in depth, and I do mean in depth, into past issues of this sort, including the reps of the ADAs and the DAs in this area, youll find what you need to know.
we have our decent judges, true, but certain very powerful districts are virulently anti semetic.
-- calling someone a chaya ra was done, with complete justification. and not simply because she was prosecuting frum jews either. the curse was not given out of hand.
--- people sometimes "turn people in" to avoid prosecution themselves. ( such is possibly the case with the frum man who was involved, who turned the rebbe in)


Last edited by faigie on Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:42 am
madys wrote:
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in the frum world, and on this forum also, who try and cheat the government by not paying taxes, by collecting wic, by under reporting their income, by collecting section 8.

Then, when the government catches them, everyone complains.

I can't comment on this case in particular, but it is a sad day to be a frum jew because it reflects negatively on all of us.

Um, some people collect WIC and are eligible. That's not cheating. I assume you meant people who aren't eligible are still collecting by lying, but you make it sound like those who collect WIC are doing something illegal!

Anyway, there is a HALACHA to be dan l'kaf zechus someone who has the status of a tzaddik and not believe any loshon hora. Enough said.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 9:55 am
faigie, I know nothing about this Rabbi, or these charges, so I will believe him innocent unless proven guilty.
That said, I find your comment outrageous. Charles Hyne, the Brooklyn DA is a GREAT FRIEND to the Jews. He has frum people in his office that work specifically with problems in the frum community in Brooklyn, not just when frum people are in trouble, but in drug prevention and other programs as well.
While I have no reason to believe that anything in this specific indictment are true, if you think the behavior it describes does not go on routinely, you are sadly mistaken. My husband audited not-for-profit institutions in the NY area for years, and some of the things our yeshivos and shuls were doing would make your skin crawl. Whether it's illegal speculative investments, kickbacks, fraud, money laundering, there are plenty of "frum" insitutions (who are taking your hekdesh $$$) who are doing it.
Let's pray that this man is acquitted, and that we all learn to keep our houses a little cleaner as a result of this episode.
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chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 10:27 am
amother wrote:
chavamom wrote:
But this is in LA, not NYC.
The Rebbe lives in BP and visits LA.


My point was you can't claim it's an ADA in NYC who is an antisemite if charges are being brought in LA. (making no judgments about the rebbe or "facts" of the case, just bringing the point).
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 10:33 am
faigie wrote:

the DA and his assistants here in NY are virulent anti semites. this is not only my opinion, but the opinion of other jewish orgs who have had to deal with them.


Charles Hynes has been a great friend to the Jews and has even been accused of giving Jews, specifically Hasidic Jews, preferential treatment, so your accusation surprises me.
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madys




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 11:00 am
Clarissa - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - those programs I mentioned are there for a reason, and if someone qualifies, by all means they should be used.

However as I mentioned, many people lie about their incomes, or work off the books in order to qualify for many of these programs.

As I stated, I know nothing about this particualr case, I'm just making a general comment of people cheating the government, and by default, the people who do the right thing by paying taxes.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 20 2007, 11:12 am
madys wrote:
Clarissa - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - those programs I mentioned are there for a reason, and if someone qualifies, by all means they should be used.

However as I mentioned, many people lie about their incomes, or work off the books in order to qualify for many of these programs.

As I stated, I know nothing about this particualr case, I'm just making a general comment of people cheating the government, and by default, the people who do the right thing by paying taxes.


I don't think this is really a response to anything I said -- I didn't talk about any programs in this thread.
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