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Help me explain to DH that $100K is not a lot for a family
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 12:47 pm
We have 5 kids, married close to 20 years.

Due to some challenging issues that I don't wish to elaborate on, finances have been dismal all those years. We had some family help, some government help, and loads of debt.

Now DH has overcome some of his demons and is working and investing in business deals, I think his ideas of money are from back in the 80s.

He thinks that $100K is a financially comfortable family who can take a few fancy vacations a year!

He's preparing a business deal and very excited that he can potentially earn $20K over a few months. The thing is that $20k is a lot of money to have in your wallet when you're in the supermarket, but not much to support a frum family over several months.

I'm so frustrated with his perspective.

My sister show me a frum article about a family earning $250K that had to budget in order to meet their monthly expenses. DH couldn't get over it. He thinks $250K is ultra rich.

Oh and we have nothing saved.

How can I educate him?
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thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 12:50 pm
Well, if you put it all on a spreadsheet, listing all your expenses vs. the $100k it should be pretty clear if that's enough or not.
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pesek zman




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 12:51 pm
I’d be focusing on what I can bring to the table. What can you do to earn (more) money?
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ShishKabob




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:01 pm
If he doesn't understand it, I don't think anything that you say will be able to convince him. OP, I don't mean to be harsh at all. And I feel for you, really. It's so aggravating.
It's one of those things that he probably needs to find out on his own. Why make this into a sholom bayis issue?
The best lessons are those learnt on our own.
And you never know, maybe he can somehow manage with $100,000.00. Maybe there'll be extra bracha in the money and it will stretch and stretch far.
Wishing you much hatzlocha and brocha in this journey.

I edited this to make my post nicer than it came out before.


Last edited by ShishKabob on Tue, May 28 2019, 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Seafoam


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:05 pm
Is he the one who pays the bills? If he hands you over the money and you have to make sure to cover all, then he'll never understand.
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:17 pm
Your job is not to educate him. Be enthusiastic and supportive about him earning the money.

After he earns the money, he'll see how far it stretches... You can ask him to help you with the bills if he's not usually involved.
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amother




Aquamarine


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:21 pm
Why don't you make another 100 k? Then you'll have 200 k.

Do you work? Have you worked before?
It sounds to me like you're a frustrated sahm who doesn't understand how overwhelming the job market and making loads of cash be.
If I was the one bringing money home and my partner just complained all the time, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about making more either.
If you think you can do it better.. why don't you show him how it's done?
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baby12x




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:23 pm
Does he have a choice to earn more or is the best deal you have?
Because if it's the best he can do, then not much you can do.
Many, many people survive on much less than 250k or even a lot less than 100k.
Did he turn down a more lucrative deal than this?
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groovy1224




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:26 pm
Well, some families have a 4K mortgage every month. So for them, 100,000 a year wouldn't cut it.

But others pay under $1,000 a month for their home, pay reduced tuition, get health insurance through work, budget for food and other goods, in which case they could likely make it work nicely with 100K.

It's like arguing that a size 8 is too tight. Depends how big your waistline is, you know?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:34 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
Well, if you put it all on a spreadsheet, listing all your expenses vs. the $100k it should be pretty clear if that's enough or not.


You don't even need a spreadsheet.

OP should express real enthusiasm about the fact that her DH has overcome his demons and is working. Discouraging him, and telling him its not good enough, is NOT a good idea.

But budgeting is.

This is how much we spend on mortgage/rent. On taxes. On tuition. On food. On phones and utilities. On other things.

This is how much we have to pay back to others.

We're in our 40s or 50s, and staring retirement in the face. We need to start putting away money for that, and for weddings.

Actually, I don't know how you do that without having the guy hide in bed with covers over his head. I'm ready to, just writing this.
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amother




Wine


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:47 pm
Imo someone could budget and live debt-free with $100,000 a year. Someone could be making $1000000 a year spend without thinking have really high expenses and be in a lot of debt. Everyone should budget and keep track of what they make .
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 1:58 pm
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
Imo someone could budget and live debt-free with $100,000 a year. Someone could be making $1000000 a year spend without thinking have really high expenses and be in a lot of debt. Everyone should budget and keep track of what they make .


OK, do it. Show me how you can live without debt and without tzedaka/government assistance on $100,000 a year gross with 5 kids. That's about $71,000 net in NYC, and just slightly under the low income limit for a family of that size. Using the assumption that the employers pays $100% of health insurance for the employee, and nothing for family, which is about as good as you get these days, and that the person is not grandfathered into a rent stabilized unit priced from 1950.
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amother




Slateblue


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:10 pm
Does he have the ability to make more but is doing something else? Some middle aged people are making 100k and yeah it's not a lot but they had to work hard to get to that point.
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:17 pm
For all of you asking, DH and I each earned about $45K last year and our tax bill was $10k. We work very hard but don't have degrees nor the money to go to school.

We were both raised that college is bad and birth control is generally assur, so it took until I was about 26 with a few kids that I realized we'd both been raised with tremendous financial disadvantages.
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amother




Wine


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:22 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
OK, do it. Show me how you can live without debt and without tzedaka/government assistance on $100,000 a year gross with 5 kids. That's about $71,000 net in NYC, and just slightly under the low income limit for a family of that size. Using the assumption that the employers pays $100% of health insurance for the employee, and nothing for family, which is about as good as you get these days, and that the person is not grandfathered into a rent stabilized unit priced from 1950.

Yes it's possible I make less than that no government programs and really the only help I get is scholarships for tuition. I don't live in New York but I live in the tri-state area. And we have some years we have no debt and some years that we have more because our medical bills are high. I'm not going to get into the different ways that you could budget and live like that because I once did and I felt like I was being mocked . Some people like to have a high life whether they have the money or not
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amother




Bisque


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:23 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
For all of you asking, DH and I each earned about $45K last year and our tax bill was $10k. We work very hard but don't have degrees nor the money to go to school.

We were both raised that college is bad and birth control is generally assur, so it took until I was about 26 with a few kids that I realized we'd both been raised with tremendous financial disadvantages.


So he’s trying to double his income and ur telling him that’s not good enough? He can’t fix anything in a day short of winning the lottery. You will ruin his desire and ambition to change and try.
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groovy1224




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
For all of you asking, DH and I each earned about $45K last year and our tax bill was $10k. We work very hard but don't have degrees nor the money to go to school.

We were both raised that college is bad and birth control is generally assur, so it took until I was about 26 with a few kids that I realized we'd both been raised with tremendous financial disadvantages.


So then DH doubled his income? It doesn't really get better than that..

What is it that you want from him? To make more? How do you expect him to achieve that? It's hard to tell from your post what it is that you want him to do differently than what he's already doing..
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:35 pm
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
Yes it's possible I make less than that no government programs and really the only hope I get is scholarships for tuition. I don't live in New York but I live in the tri-state area. And we have some years we have no debt and so many years that we have more because our medical bills are high. I'm not going to get into the different ways that you could budget and live like that because I once did and I felt like I was being mocked people like to have a high life whether they have the money or not


I'm not mocking you. I just don't know how its possible.

In the tri-state area, you're going to be paying at least $2000 in rent for a 3-bedroom apartment. $250 a month for two metrocards (no cars, and the kids are all walking). Tuition for 5 kids of $24,000 a year, which is way low, but a nice round number of $2000 a month, no camp. And at least $750 a month insurance. You're up to $4750 a month without touching food, clothing, maaser, etc. Which you've got $1200 for.

I mean, I guess its possible. No savings for a family that's going to retire someday, and have simchas to make.

But its awfully tight.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:41 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
OK, do it. Show me how you can live without debt and without tzedaka/government assistance on $100,000 a year gross with 5 kids. That's about $71,000 net in NYC, and just slightly under the low income limit for a family of that size. Using the assumption that the employers pays $100% of health insurance for the employee, and nothing for family, which is about as good as you get these days, and that the person is not grandfathered into a rent stabilized unit priced from 1950.


$2000 rent for 3 bedroom per month(utilities included)
Tuition (after scholarships) 35,000per yr

Only one van but save money by taking public transportation to work and by walking otherwise the gas bill(which is increasing due to higher gas prices) will be too high

No cleaning help, no camp(so that helps pay for other big items)



Limit the amount spent on food...no pizza..no takeout...only simple foods...buy in bulk n make your own snacks......so that the rest of the money is for food, unexpected copays, medicine....

And, tax refund is put aside for any extras like "registration fees.." And tax refund is used for any tuition not covered in post tax income...

Its possible but I dont know many who do it because it feels like very few ppl are not spending as much on all the things "frum ppl expect".

Op, its possible but very very hard and anyone making less than 100k with 5 kids wont be able to afford majority of things others buy and usually will need "tzedeka" like tomchei shabbos, gemsch for clothes....but its possible even without but not possible to pay full tuition...
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Monsey 10952




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 28 2019, 2:47 pm
Go over the Weekly, Monthly & Annual expenses with him. start by rent, food, clothing, tuition, car. (you are almost there....)
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