Home

Help me explain to DH that $100K is not a lot for a family
Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 6:15 am
urban gypsy wrote:
I completely agree. The OP was painful to read and very out of touch.
I am a single mom who works full time and supports three children on 35K.
You sound incredibly privileged and entitled.


I am sorry that you are in this very difficult financial situation. I am assuming you have made the choice to put your kids in public school or that you are incredibly fortunate in that your children's tuition is mostly subsidized. If you have put your kids in public school, I don't fault you at all -- I have considered it myself, for several reasons, including financial -- but please realize that for the vast majority of the frum community, sending children to yeshiva or Jewish day school (as it's usually called OOT) is very nearly an absolute requirement. And if your children's tuition is subsidized in some way, you must realize that this can't be done on a large scale without the system collapsing.

We earn much more than the OP's family but we are not privileged or entitled. We have never taken a big, fancy vacation. Over the past ten years, we've taken a few local driving trips. The last one of those, a whopping three days at a historical site one hundred miles away, took place three years ago. We tried to do a few weeks of day camp a while back, but even that was too expensive. The kids stay home and entertain themselves in the summer. More recently, they have jobs and internships. We don't buy clothes for ourselves. I have a fondness for make-up, but confine myself to small amounts of Maybelline.

We pay full tuition. That's the killer for us. There are different things that other people must deal with -- crippling medical expenses, necessary house repairs. You can't look at a number and judge without knowing more.
Back to top

amother




OP


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 7:24 am
OP here. Maybe I'm not a good writer, but there are some statements here that are totally untrue.

DH and I each earned about $45K in '18. Where on earth did you read that he doubled his salary? Then, we filed taxes in April and got a $10K bill from the IRS.

I have a home business whose earnings fluctuate monthly. DH has these random gigs where he gets paid as an independent contractor. Sometimes he will earn $500 a week, sometimes $1800, and sometimes zero.

When we filed taxes recently he was shocked that we earned almost $100K since were struggling each month/week. He seems to see the trees but not understanding the forest. He pays the bills and knows how much we spend weekly/monthly but still has in his head that a 6 figure salary is wealthy.

So when he is working very hard for a business deal that will take 10 months and lots of work and has risk of losing money, and possibly earn $20k profit, he is feeling on top of the moon and starts planning vacations and buying a bigger house etc.

We have monthly budgets in place but he doesn't seem to get it understand the annual budget.
Back to top

amother




Oak


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 7:35 am
I have to side with OP. I remember when I was newly married and earned around 40K a relative commented that you can’t support a family with 5 kids with less than 200K annually. I was shocked. Well, a few kids and a few years later I see that she was absolutely right. OP, as others have suggested go over your annual budget with him and the numbers will speak for themselves.
Back to top

JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 7:51 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
OP here. Maybe I'm not a good writer, but there are some statements here that are totally untrue.

DH and I each earned about $45K in '18. Where on earth did you read that he doubled his salary? Then, we filed taxes in April and got a $10K bill from the IRS.

I have a home business whose earnings fluctuate monthly. DH has these random gigs where he gets paid as an independent contractor. Sometimes he will earn $500 a week, sometimes $1800, and sometimes zero.

When we filed taxes recently he was shocked that we earned almost $100K since were struggling each month/week. He seems to see the trees but not understanding the forest. He pays the bills and knows how much we spend weekly/monthly but still has in his head that a 6 figure salary is wealthy.

So when he is working very hard for a business deal that will take 10 months and lots of work and has risk of losing money, and possibly earn $20k profit, he is feeling on top of the moon and starts planning vacations and buying a bigger house etc.

We have monthly budgets in place but he doesn't seem to get it understand the annual budget.


Regarding the bolded: That is why I said he probably heard this from his parents' generation. Things change. It's not just the rate of inflation. Tuition has increased more than the rate of inflation has. Real estate has as well. Especially for those who grew up in NYC at a time when rent-controlled and rent-stabilized apartments were plentiful, real estate costs have skyrocketed.

Regarding the monthly budget vs the yearly budget: Ordinarily, a yearly budget should be 12 times the monthly budget. You know that and your DH knows that. Why can he understand one but not the other?

Either there are some expenses that occur just once or twice a year (e.g., automobile insurance; underestimated income taxes) that you need to consider, or the difficulty is figuring out your income, since it varies.

Add up your DH's income and your income over the past few years, and get a yearly average. Divide it into 12. That's your total family monthly income. You need to work well within that range.

Add up all your expenses, those that come every month (rent/mortgage, tuition, groceries), those that come less frequently (automobile insurance, shul membership, Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur seats, shul dinner), and those that come sporadically and a bit unpredictably (house repairs, auto repairs, medical expenses, clothing purchases). The third category is the hardest to figure out: look at the last three years to get an average. If you don't have all the data, do your best to estimate.

Income has to be greater than expenses.

You can figure this out together, and you can come to a better understanding.

I get angry with Rabbis who say "God will provide." It prevents people from doing the hard work of budgeting. It prevents people from doing the hard work of preparing themselves for a job that will provide for their families. I am not agitating here for secular studies, though certainly you need some basic arithmetic or spreadsheet skills to budget. I am arguing that you need to have your eyes opened about the income that is needed to support even a modest, let alone a luxurious lifestyle.
Back to top

Orchid




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 8:41 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
OP here. Maybe I'm not a good writer, but there are some statements here that are totally untrue.

DH and I each earned about $45K in '18. Where on earth did you read that he doubled his salary? Then, we filed taxes in April and got a $10K bill from the IRS.

I have a home business whose earnings fluctuate monthly. DH has these random gigs where he gets paid as an independent contractor. Sometimes he will earn $500 a week, sometimes $1800, and sometimes zero.

When we filed taxes recently he was shocked that we earned almost $100K since were struggling each month/week. He seems to see the trees but not understanding the forest. He pays the bills and knows how much we spend weekly/monthly but still has in his head that a 6 figure salary is wealthy.

So when he is working very hard for a business deal that will take 10 months and lots of work and has risk of losing money, and possibly earn $20k profit, he is feeling on top of the moon and starts planning vacations and buying a bigger house etc.

We have monthly budgets in place but he doesn't seem to get it understand the annual budget.


It is indeed hard to create an annual budget when the monthly income fluctuates so much. But still, using last year's annual income as a guide (the numbers that show you brought in $100,000), you can come up with a budget. Your expenses should be predictable, right? All the regular monthly expenses, clothing, whatever. Use the $100,000 high amount and compare to the expenses to show him the numbers just don't justify buying a more expensive house and going on exotic vacations. Again, you're job is not to "convince" him. Your job is to put it all on paper and let the numbers, in black and white, do the convincing.

And ps- you should never owe big at tax time. If DH is self-employed, he needs to make quarterly estimated payments. Pay-as-you go. You could also get a tax penalty if you make it all at the end, based on the numbers.
Back to top

ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 9:08 am
He probably needs ego boost to keep himself motivated.

Like you said he's sticking to a monthly budget but he needs that dream to keep him motivated and going.

Just say something like "that would be so nice"
Back to top

urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 9:37 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
I am sorry that you are in this very difficult financial situation. I am assuming you have made the choice to put your kids in public school or that you are incredibly fortunate in that your children's tuition is mostly subsidized. If you have put your kids in public school, I don't fault you at all -- I have considered it myself, for several reasons, including financial -- but please realize that for the vast majority of the frum community, sending children to yeshiva or Jewish day school (as it's usually called OOT) is very nearly an absolute requirement. And if your children's tuition is subsidized in some way, you must realize that this can't be done on a large scale without the system collapsing.

We earn much more than the OP's family but we are not privileged or entitled. We have never taken a big, fancy vacation. Over the past ten years, we've taken a few local driving trips. The last one of those, a whopping three days at a historical site one hundred miles away, took place three years ago. We tried to do a few weeks of day camp a while back, but even that was too expensive. The kids stay home and entertain themselves in the summer. More recently, they have jobs and internships. We don't buy clothes for ourselves. I have a fondness for make-up, but confine myself to small amounts of Maybelline.

We pay full tuition. That's the killer for us. There are different things that other people must deal with -- crippling medical expenses, necessary house repairs. You can't look at a number and judge without knowing more.


Thanks so much for this sensitive and nuanced response JITM Hug

You are correct, we are incredibly blessed to have tuition partly subsidized, and partly deferred... I will need to pay it back when they graduate and I daven that I will be able to do that somehow. If that was not the case, I would have to put them in public school. And I realize the tuition model is not sustainable, so I am so grateful to you and others like you who pay full tuition to benefit those of us who don't. When conversations turn to "what would you do if you won the lottery/struck it rich" my answer would always be to pay full tuition. I hope that someday it will be possible for me.

My reaction to OP's post was to what I read as entitlement. The median income for a household in New York is around $60K. So objectively, if they are making $100K, or $140K, they are well off. And it's irritating and out of touch to pretend otherwise. Of course, frum families have more kids and more expenses, and that is where living within your means comes in. Based on the information provided here, especially in her follow up post, OP's family could benefit from some budgeting help, especially with managing unpredictable cash flow from self-employment, which is confusing and challenging. However, that attitude of needing to "take him down a peg" for being excited about earning more is not the solution. That just seemed so mean spirited and wrong to me.
Back to top

amother




Sapphire


Post  Wed, May 29 2019, 9:40 am
urban gypsy wrote:
Thanks so much for this sensitive and nuanced response JITM Hug

You are correct, we are incredibly blessed to have tuition partly subsidized, and partly deferred... I will need to pay it back when they graduate and I daven that I will be able to do that somehow. If that was not the case, I would have to put them in public school. And I realize the tuition model is not sustainable, so I am so grateful to you and others like you who pay full tuition to benefit those of us who don't. When conversations turn to "what would you do if you won the lottery/struck it rich" my answer would always be to pay full tuition. I hope that someday it will be possible for me.

My reaction to OP's post was to what I read as entitlement. The median income for a household in New York is around $60K. So objectively, if they are making $100K, or $140K, they are well off. And it's irritating and out of touch to pretend otherwise. Of course, frum families have more kids and more expenses, and that is where living within your means comes in. Based on the information provided here, especially in her follow up post, OP's family could benefit from some budgeting help, especially with managing unpredictable cash flow from self-employment, which is confusing and challenging. However, that attitude of needing to "take him down a peg" for being excited about earning more is not the solution. That just seemed so mean spirited and wrong to me.

Wonderful post Urban.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3 Recent Topics

Page 3 of 3 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Cleaning help in monroe/blooming grove
by amother
2 Yesterday at 11:40 pm View last post
If you made a bris and you had a lot of OOT family
by amother
48 Yesterday at 8:20 pm View last post
Need help planning Colorado Vacation
by amother
23 Yesterday at 1:03 pm View last post
Submit to Family first
by amother
9 Yesterday at 9:44 am View last post
Niagara weekend family trip
by amother
3 Sun, Jul 14 2019, 11:06 pm View last post

Jump to: