Home

Dd jealous of boys, says they get to do much more
Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Oak
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 6:54 am
amother [ Violet ] wrote:
My daughters complain about the disparity as well. All the boys have a big deal made about their bar mitzvahs, and the girls school does not allow bas mitzva parties with friends.


I'm still upset about the tiny bas mitzva I had. At least I was allowed to invite my friends but no one else came. It was the same as the party I had when I was 9 or 11. Not even my sisters, mother, or grandmother attended.

I made big bas mitzva parties for my dds but since we only invited women, they were smaller then the bar mitzvos for my sons. But they were in the same location, similar food etc.

Otherwise I would never want to be a boy but yes its insulting when a baby boy gets 2 or 3 parties and a girl might not get anything. Maybe a kiddush not even attended by mother or baby.

I also hate the women being thrown out of sukkos thing, but I appreciate that I don't have to eat in the sukkah all the time. We are chabad and my husband and sons don't even drink water out the sukkah.
Back to top

amother




Magenta
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 8:11 am
I think the way to go is to validate and also minimize disparity to the extent that you can.

And please, for the love of all that is holy, stay away from the classic patronizing apologetics when answering her questions, those do not help. I am a frum woman who is happy enough to be one that I've stopped trying to justify the things that do bother me and just decided that since yiddishkeit is a package deal, I can accept that some things are unpleasant for me. Frankly, I do think Judaism, as currently practiced, makes women second class citizens. I'm not really interested in debating that point. If you don't feel that way, that's great for you, but please accept that some of us are bothered by certain things and do not find the same satisfaction in the answers that we've been given that you have.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 8:39 am
I was out running errands today in 90+ degree weather, and thinking about this thread.

The men were wearing undershirts, tallis, dress shirt (or the other way around, with the tallis outside the shirt), a black jacket, sometimes a vest and then a jacket on top, a kippa, AND a black hat. That's a lot of clothes.

I was relatively breezy in a light cotton blouse and cotton skirt.

I have to say, I have a lot of respect for men who wear the full levush even in the middle of summer.

I am SO glad I am not a man! Sunny
Back to top

WhatFor




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 9:25 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I was out running errands today in 90+ degree weather, and thinking about this thread.

The men were wearing undershirts, tallis, dress shirt (or the other way around, with the tallis outside the shirt), a black jacket, sometimes a vest and then a jacket on top, a kippa, AND a black hat. That's a lot of clothes.

I was relatively breezy in a light cotton blouse and cotton skirt.

I have to say, I have a lot of respect for men who wear the full levush even in the middle of summer.

I am SO glad I am not a man! Sunny


Yes and in some circles, they can go to a pool and take it all off but their swimsuit while their wife has to be all covered up. In most chareidi circles growing up, boys can wear shorts and short sleeves in the summer long beyond when little girls are covering all of that up.
I'm sorry but this isn't a good example.
Back to top

amother




Coral
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 9:32 am
WhatFor wrote:
Yes and in some circles, they can go to a pool and take it all off but their swimsuit while their wife has to be all covered up. In most chareidi circles growing up, boys can wear shorts and short sleeves in the summer long beyond when little girls are covering all of that up.
I'm sorry but this isn't a good example.


Yeah, the circles where the men have vests over tallises over shirts generally have their wives dressed to the nines in covered sheitels and full thick tights and layered tops.
Back to top

urban gypsy




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 30 2019, 9:46 am
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
Reading this thread I'm realizing how amazing my father was in raising his daughters. I don't think it ever crossed my mind growing up that boys have it better than girls
Since I was young my father sat down and learned with me almost every night - first chumash and then kitzur shulchan aruch. I actually made a "siyum" for that on my bas mitzvah (it was a shalosh seudos for women in my neighborhood, very few friends). He also made me learn my bas mitzvah Parsha throuroughly and come up with an idea for a dvar torah.
He also took me to shul with him every Friday night from when I was 8 or so and stressed the beauty of davening with a minyan. Once older I also went to shul shabbos day and stayed in the entire davening including layning. When I heard about my cousins in Lakewood who went to a shul where there was not even a women's section I was so confused.
I also never realized that girls didn't "have to" sit in the sukkah. We were never allowed to even take a bite inside. When I got married and went to my In laws the first time I started crying when I was told I had to eat inside because there was no room for women in the sukkah. I'm sure there are lots of other examples but can't think of them right now...
I realize that communities are different and there are certain things that are and aren't acceptable, but I think there is a lot we can do as parents to try and avoid that our children have these feelings.


Copper I found your post very deeply moving and emotional!!!!
What an incredible father you have! I am very touched to read this.
Back to top

amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Wed, Jan 20 2021, 10:51 pm
some mothers like boys better

it is very painful to be a girl in such a family.
Back to top

amother




Pumpkin
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 12:39 am
She’s right. Boys do get to do more. I thought so as a kid and I still think so. Nothing wrong with validating how she feels and saying it’s true. More activities for boys and men, bigger celebrations , more mitzvos, more fun at school. My brothers were always having raffles and winning bikes, scooters , etc. , went on more trips, more programs like Avos ubanim. Girls didn’t have any of that.
Back to top

amother




Pearl
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 2:47 am
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
Reading this thread I'm realizing how amazing my father was in raising his daughters. I don't think it ever crossed my mind growing up that boys have it better than girls
Since I was young my father sat down and learned with me almost every night - first chumash and then kitzur shulchan aruch. I actually made a "siyum" for that on my bas mitzvah (it was a shalosh seudos for women in my neighborhood, very few friends). He also made me learn my bas mitzvah Parsha throuroughly and come up with an idea for a dvar torah.
He also took me to shul with him every Friday night from when I was 8 or so and stressed the beauty of davening with a minyan. Once older I also went to shul shabbos day and stayed in the entire davening including layning. When I heard about my cousins in Lakewood who went to a shul where there was not even a women's section I was so confused.
I also never realized that girls didn't "have to" sit in the sukkah. We were never allowed to even take a bite inside. When I got married and went to my In laws the first time I started crying when I was told I had to eat inside because there was no room for women in the sukkah. I'm sure there are lots of other examples but can't think of them right now...
I realize that communities are different and there are certain things that are and aren't acceptable, but I think there is a lot we can do as parents to try and avoid that our children have these feelings.


I didn't have such an upbringing but there was stuff I did like lighting the menorah. I'm yeshivish and when the first Chanukah came around married DH was appalled to hear of a woman lighting. He kept saying I do shabbos candles for the family and he does Chanukah. I countered if we have little boys they will light. So clearly it's nor for the whole family.

After realizing how much it meant to me, that I was used to it DH helped set my menorah up every night and answered amen to all my brochos. I don't light when we go away to my in laws, I don't think I'd want to as only the boys light and it woukd be akward to be the only female lighting.

I was never makpid on eating in a sukkah. But during the yomtov itself the meals I've always ate in a sukkah. It would be hard for me not to.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 4:28 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:
I didn't have such an upbringing but there was stuff I did like lighting the menorah. I'm yeshivish and when the first Chanukah came around married DH was appalled to hear of a woman lighting. He kept saying I do shabbos candles for the family and he does Chanukah. I countered if we have little boys they will light. So clearly it's nor for the whole family.

After realizing how much it meant to me, that I was used to it DH helped set my menorah up every night and answered amen to all my brochos. I don't light when we go away to my in laws, I don't think I'd want to as only the boys light and it woukd be akward to be the only female lighting.

I was never makpid on eating in a sukkah. But during the yomtov itself the meals I've always ate in a sukkah. It would be hard for me not to.

I'm surprised he was "appalled" by this. Many women light hanukiyaot. It's not so "out-there."
Back to top

amother




Blonde
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 4:34 am
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
She’s right. Boys do get to do more. I thought so as a kid and I still think so. Nothing wrong with validating how she feels and saying it’s true. More activities for boys and men, bigger celebrations , more mitzvos, more fun at school. My brothers were always having raffles and winning bikes, scooters , etc. , went on more trips, more programs like Avos ubanim. Girls didn’t have any of that.


My kids' school had mother-daughter learning. Why not set something up?
Back to top

Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 4:48 am
I have the same problem. Also regarding doing the mitzvos, boys get an upshernis, when they are bar mitzvah they are able to read from the Torah. Yeah, they need to wrap tefillin and they need to wear tzitzit in summer.
In most families only married women are lighting candles on shabbos, I hated that when I was single and was at a non-Chabad family I couldn't light a candle while boys could make kiddush, havdalah and everything else when single. So stupid... So even I married litvish/yeshivish I really want my daughters to light one candle just so they have some attachment to a mitzvah, if they want to learn something they are welcome to. And I'm really happy to be a woman, I'm really happy I don't need to put on teffilin everyday or to daven in a minjan.

Amother Copper's father sounds AMAZING!!! Also adjust to your child, DH was for a long time living up to the chareidi yeshivish standards but became more modern because it fit for him as a person more then being a 'black hatter' his mother is still setting the bars high, she basicially wants him to wear a black hat again and learn more and everything but that is not who he is. And if a girl will be like ''I want to know mishnayos'' ok... hear it is. It is not an aveira to do so. I know lots of women who are better in learning and understanding then their husbands.
Back to top

amother




Pearl
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 5:34 am
DrMom wrote:
I'm surprised he was "appalled" by this. Many women light hanukiyaot. It's not so "out-there."


In yeshivish circles? Like lakewood? Not really....
Back to top

amother




Yellow
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 6:05 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Dd age 10 periodically brings up that its not fair because boys have it better and get to do more. She is in a predominantly girls family with only little boys.

Her little brother recently had an upsherin and she complained that it's not fair that boys get an upsherin and girls dont. She doesnt even like to be center of attention, so its not that. And she says its not fair that boys get to have a rebbe and learn mishnayos and gemara, etc.. When I tell her there are things she can learn too, she says its not the same.

Now her little brother is getting ready to start school and again, dd is saying that it's not fair that he gets to go to a "yeshiva" and boys do better things and are luckier etc etc.

I try to give her understanding and a listening ear.
I try to talk about what's good about being a girl/woman.
I try to point out that she can do many of those things, too, if she wants, such as go to shul.

How can I help her? Anyone have experience with something like this?

Boys have so many less options. Girls can choose a high school that emphasizes their interests and in more charedi circles girls can choose a profession that speaks to them. Boys are in yeshiva, whether it suits them or not. They learn mishna and gemara, whether they are made for it or not. More RW yeshivas often don't allow sports. Boys have to worry about zera levatala and bitul Torah.

Girls have it SO MUCH BETTER.
Back to top

amother




Yellow
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 6:12 am
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
She’s right. Boys do get to do more. I thought so as a kid and I still think so. Nothing wrong with validating how she feels and saying it’s true. More activities for boys and men, bigger celebrations , more mitzvos, more fun at school. My brothers were always having raffles and winning bikes, scooters , etc. , went on more trips, more programs like Avos ubanim. Girls didn’t have any of that.

My brothers were always jealous of us girls. They had school on Sundays and had longer days at yeshiva, we had more activities and less responsibilities....we put on plays every year and they had no such thing....
Back to top

twizzlers1




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 6:17 am
my boys are for sure jealous of my girls they get to do so much more! It is not simple being a boy they have so many more responsibilities.It's interesting that she feels this way I have never had my girls feel this way at all.
Back to top

amother




Blonde
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 6:33 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Boys have so many less options. Girls can choose a high school that emphasizes their interests and in more charedi circles girls can choose a profession that speaks to them. Boys are in yeshiva, whether it suits them or not. They learn mishna and gemara, whether they are made for it or not. More RW yeshivas often don't allow sports. Boys have to worry about zera levatala and bitul Torah.

Girls have it SO MUCH BETTER.


Girls have more freedom of activity, but they are functionally second class citizens in the ritual, halachic sense. (Yes, he's the head and she's the neck, Hashem told Avraham to listen to Sarah, my husband buys me jewelry for yom tov, blah blah blah.) Women are not fully fledged adults with agency over their own lives or their own property.

In a world where halacha is everything, and particularly in a world where the only form of avodas Hashem that really matters is learning, women simply don't have as much value as men. Spin it how you like, but that's the reality.

So, we can either encourage girls to find value outside of religion, or bring religion back to a place where learning is only one of many forms of avodas Hashem. It won't erase the fundamental patriarchy of Judaism, but it can take the edge off.
Back to top

Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 7:32 am
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
Girls have more freedom of activity, but they are functionally second class citizens in the ritual, halachic sense. (Yes, he's the head and she's the neck, Hashem told Avraham to listen to Sarah, my husband buys me jewelry for yom tov, blah blah blah.) Women are not fully fledged adults with agency over their own lives or their own property.

In a world where halacha is everything, and particularly in a world where the only form of avodas Hashem that really matters is learning, women simply don't have as much value as men. Spin it how you like, but that's the reality.

So, we can either encourage girls to find value outside of religion, or bring religion back to a place where learning is only one of many forms of avodas Hashem. It won't erase the fundamental patriarchy of Judaism, but it can take the edge off.


This is all theoretical and won't hit girls as being unfair till they're married, if at all. I agree with those saying that the girls seem to have it better than the boys during the school/yeshiva years.
Back to top

amother




Tan
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 9:08 am
I'm not sure why all the comparisons. In some things boys have it better, in some things girls do.
Best to focus on what we do have.
Back to top

amother




Slategray
 

Post Thu, Jan 21 2021, 10:08 am
DrMom wrote:
I'm surprised he was "appalled" by this. Many women light hanukiyaot. It's not so "out-there."


My family's very yeshivish. The daughters all light. I'm the only member of my immediate family who never lit.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 2 of 3 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Twin boys more common? 39 Yesterday at 8:01 pm View last post
Little boys sweaters online
by amother
7 Yesterday at 4:03 pm View last post
Black head removal for teen boys
by #1 Mom
13 Yesterday at 11:38 am View last post
Non sweaty Shabbos boys pants - 10yr old
by 4pom
3 Yesterday at 11:07 am View last post
Boys bedroom colors
by amother
6 Mon, Mar 01 2021, 4:20 pm View last post