Home

Will most Anti-Vax parents vaccinate or homeschool?
  Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:32 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Like it or not, Jews stand out. And are held to a certain standard that other groups are not. This is a fact. Look at the way Israel is scrutinized while oppressive regimes elsewhere are barely noticed. So yes, non vaxxers in the Jewish community will be noticed, highlighted and blamed for outbreaks while others skate away unnoticed.

Of course! I'm glad you're recognizing it for the anti-Semitism that this whole thing is based on.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:35 am
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Like it or not, Jews stand out. And are held to a certain standard that other groups are not. This is a fact. Look at the way Israel is scrutinized while oppressive regimes elsewhere are barely noticed. So yes, non vaxxers in the Jewish community will be noticed, highlighted and blamed for outbreaks while others skate away unnoticed.


Exactly!
Worldwide, vaccination rates have dropped and religion is one of the reasons, as is misinformation.
Most of the US still honors religious exemptions and tries not to trample religious beliefs until they create an unsafe situation for the rest of society.
And I agree with the poster who calls me naive that Jews who claim religious exemptions are in the minority. I may also be naive.
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:35 am
southernbubby wrote:
It's not naive to say that the epicenter of the outbreak is the frum community and that many people blame the frum Jews.

It is.
In 2018, 349 individual cases of measles were confirmed in 26 states and the District of Columbia. From January 1 to June 13, 2019, 1,044 individual cases of measles have been confirmed in 28 states.
Jews live next to each other so it's easy to blame a group. Non-Jewish non-vaxxers don't necessarily live next to each other so there's no group to blame.

Yeah, I know frum Jews are being blamed, but if you believe it's anything other than anti-Semitism, you are naive.
Back to top

amother




Yellow


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:38 am
So the anti vaxxers are just giving fodder to the anti semites, basically, causing harm to the rest of us. You are the cause.

And if you can't understand that, you are the naive one.
Back to top

nchr




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 12:05 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
It is.
In 2018, 349 individual cases of measles were confirmed in 26 states and the District of Columbia. From January 1 to June 13, 2019, 1,044 individual cases of measles have been confirmed in 28 states.
Jews live next to each other so it's easy to blame a group. Non-Jewish non-vaxxers don't necessarily live next to each other so there's no group to blame.

Yeah, I know frum Jews are being blamed, but if you believe it's anything other than anti-Semitism, you are naive.


Honestly, most people know that the majority of Jews vaccinate. Many people, unfamiliar with frum groups, may think that Orthodox Jews do not, but most of the non Jews I work with know that it is just a subgroup and has nothing to do with religion. They know that people misused religious exemptions, just like non Jews do. If anything, people think Jews overuse doctors not the other way around. The outbreak is just worse in the Jewish community because of the large amounts of children and communal behaviors coupled with the ultra Orthodox's trend to disregard laws (this is socio-cultural). I don't think people are blaming frum Jews - just other frum Jews who are frustrated with their neighbors.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 12:18 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
It is.
In 2018, 349 individual cases of measles were confirmed in 26 states and the District of Columbia. From January 1 to June 13, 2019, 1,044 individual cases of measles have been confirmed in 28 states.
Jews live next to each other so it's easy to blame a group. Non-Jewish non-vaxxers don't necessarily live next to each other so there's no group to blame.

Yeah, I know frum Jews are being blamed, but if you believe it's anything other than anti-Semitism, you are naive.


It started here in the frum community of Rockland and is still not contained but you may be right that people know that it is limited to a few misguided people and then there are those looking for fodder.
Back to top

cbsp




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 12:38 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
Of course! I'm glad you're recognizing it for the anti-Semitism that this whole thing is based on.


I think that the reason they are blaming the frum Jews is because religious exemptions were used. Had these frum Jews gotten medical exemptions it's possible their religion would not be called into play.

Using the religious exemptions opened the door for the religion to be maligned. Please don't be naive about that...
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 12:47 pm
cbsp wrote:
I think that the reason they are blaming the frum Jews is because religious exemptions were used. Had these frum Jews gotten medical exemptions it's possible their religion would not be called into play.

Using the religious exemptions opened the door for the religion to be maligned. Please don't be naive about that...


Exactly! You worded it better than I could. It is also the fact that some people feel that not standing up for religious exemptions is threatening our religious rights in general.
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 2:51 pm
cbsp wrote:
I think that the reason they are blaming the frum Jews is because religious exemptions were used. Had these frum Jews gotten medical exemptions it's possible their religion would not be called into play.

Using the religious exemptions opened the door for the religion to be maligned. Please don't be naive about that...

You think all those non-Jewish non-vaxxers were using medical exemptions? I really don't want to use that naive word again... Wink
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:33 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
You think all those non-Jewish non-vaxxers were using medical exemptions? I really don't want to use that naive word again... Wink


In California, as soon as religious exemptions were ended, medical exemptions soared, leading health officials to realize that shady doctors got paid oodles to concoct phoney exemptions. They also have realized that few religions prohibit vaccinations so eliminating them didn't step on religious rights and religion exemptions were also a ruse.
I agree that there are anti-Semites and people who are anti-religion who would love to see yeshivas close. Jews fined for not vaccinating, as well as getting rid of bris milah, schechita, kapporis, etc, for no good reason besides bigotry and hatred. But then the remote possibility exists that due to public transportation, someone who doesn't benefit from catching measles will be subject to it. What then, do those people gain from your religious exemptions?
And we already see that the law cannot completely accommodate every type of religious expression.
Back to top

amother




Green


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:16 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
before you know it they will be closing down mikvah, banning shechita and mila, in the name of public health.

what will you all do then?
move to a new country that truelly gives religious freedom? if that will still exist.
the non jews succeeded, divide us in order to concor us.


Please stop calling this religious freedom, because it has nothing to do with religion! At least not my religion. The rabbonim of the antivaxxers are Wakefield, Bigtree, and co. This has nothing to do with yiddishkeit.
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:00 pm
southernbubby wrote:
In California, as soon as religious exemptions were ended, medical exemptions soared, leading health officials to realize that shady doctors got paid oodles to concoct phoney exemptions. They also have realized that few religions prohibit vaccinations so eliminating them didn't step on religious rights and religion exemptions were also a ruse.
I agree that there are anti-Semites and people who are anti-religion who would love to see yeshivas close. Jews fined for not vaccinating, as well as getting rid of bris milah, schechita, kapporis, etc, for no good reason besides bigotry and hatred. But then the remote possibility exists that due to public transportation, someone who doesn't benefit from catching measles will be subject to it. What then, do those people gain from your religious exemptions?
And we already see that the law cannot completely accommodate every type of religious expression.

So you say it's ok to have some anti-semitism. It's ok to step on religious rights (that's what happens by repealing a religious exemption). As long as one person doesn't catch measles.

Did you see the Agudah's statement regarding the repeal of the religious exemption? https://agudathisrael.org/nys-.....ment/ I agree with a lot of what they say.

If the goal was eliminating measles, there were many better ways of doing it.
Back to top

Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:36 pm
they tried the better ways, the anti vaxers didn't cooperate.
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:38 pm
Sebastian wrote:
they tried the better ways, the anti vaxers didn't cooperate.

Nah nah.
Did you read the link from the Agudah?
Back to top

Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:40 pm
not from the link but I read their statement in the paper.

In theory I agree with them; in practice the anti vaxers made this very necessary.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jun 21 2019, 12:11 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
So you say it's ok to have some anti-semitism. It's ok to step on religious rights (that's what happens by repealing a religious exemption). As long as one person doesn't catch measles.

Did you see the Agudah's statement regarding the repeal of the religious exemption? https://agudathisrael.org/nys-.....ment/ I agree with a lot of what they say.

If the goal was eliminating measles, there were many better ways of doing it.


I think that you are twisting what I said which is a manipulative ploy. I may be naive but am savvy when it comes to being manipulated.

I never said that it is okay to have anti-Semitism. I did say that eliminating religious exemptions was not stepping on religious rights because the lawmakers determined that most religions don't prohibit vaccinations. The law already allowed for religious exemptions to be rescended during an outbreak.
The Agudas Yisroel does support vaccination but is concerned about the erosion of religious freedom. They support government education about the importance of vaccines. I could agree with that but what happens when anti-vaxers say that it is against their religion to teach kids about vaccines?
Just imagine if anti-vaxers had the upper hand in a yeshiva setting and we're objecting to their kids being taught about vaccines!
The education itself could be a threat to religious beliefs and rights the same way that LBGT education is a threat to the religious rights and freedoms of many religious people.
I wonder if the rabbonim considered that possibility.

The rabbonim are concerned about the loss of religious freedom but they emphasized that Jews do vaccinate which is why it bothers many of us when Jews claim religious exemptions as though it was treif. It has already been said enough that there is no religious prohibition against vaccinating.

I am still in agreement with law makers and time will tell if the measles mess clears up or if anti-vaxers find some phoney exemptions from shady anti-vax doctors and become even more dangerous than before. This to me is a more realistic concern than the NY State legislature coming after bris milah or schechita.

I am wondering how many pro-vaxers who value religion will back a repeal if it means more ongoing measles exposure.

So far, it looks like many anti-vaxers equated religious exemptions with the right to infect babies and I didn't see any articles where anti-vaxers expressed remorse for exposing someone and making them sick.

Silver, what would you do if your kid gave someone measles and the whole thing went sour? Would you at least apologize or would you say that the religion that you follow (for which you need an exemption) decreed that this person should meet that fate?
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:41 pm
whewpy wrote:
The law states thAt u have 30 days to give the first of each series of shots and have age appropriate spots to finish up. While its hard to get well visits now in June, I am sure that any dr office u call here in Brooklyn saying u want to bring ur child for shots, will make time for u. All drs are very intent on this right now

BTW, spoke to my doctor. She said she would not give so many shots within such a short time span. When I said but we need them for school she said, so wait and see what happens.

It's like a baby who is nursing and needs to be started on food. You don't suddenly give them bread and strawberries and bamba. You slowly give one food at a time and wait to see how they take it. Because they're not used to it. Or someone who never drinks wine, you don't give them 3 glasses at once. If they want to start drinking, you do it slowly. Since up until now it was legal with a RE to not vaccinate, the legistlators need to be realistic about catching up on needed vaccines. Someone who never got any vaccines is NOT going to take the first one in each series within 30 days. It just doesn't make sense. Even those who give at the right age, many give only one per visit. Someone who never gave is not jumping to give them all nor will their doctor.
Back to top

JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:07 pm
I agree with amother Silver that anti-vaxxing parents certainly won't give all shots within 30 days. I know that when I, a pro-vaxxing person, got my MMR booster a couple of months ago, I was specifically asked by the pro-vaxxing staff at the pop-up clinic whether I had had any vaccines in the previous four weeks. They were not going to give me the MMR if I had. Fortunately, my most recent vaccine had been a Tdap in February, after a bloody injury which had necessitated the T of Tdap, so I squeaked through.

I'm surprised at the timeline they gave out, unless it has been misrepresented here. If true, it does show that the legislation was not crafted as carefully as it might have been, but that is often the case. That's what amendments are for. I thought I had read, though, that parents have to just show that they've started the process within a year and that they had a year to catch up. That makes more sense. It's still kind of hard. I suspect that the guidelines could also be loosened a bit. Perhaps kids don't need all 3 polio shots, for example. Maybe they could get one of each and then have their titers taken?
Back to top

amother




Silver


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:35 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
I agree with amother Silver that anti-vaxxing parents certainly won't give all shots within 30 days. I know that when I, a pro-vaxxing person, got my MMR booster a couple of months ago, I was specifically asked by the pro-vaxxing staff at the pop-up clinic whether I had had any vaccines in the previous four weeks. They were not going to give me the MMR if I had. Fortunately, my most recent vaccine had been a Tdap in February, after a bloody injury which had necessitated the T of Tdap, so I squeaked through.

I'm surprised at the timeline they gave out, unless it has been misrepresented here. If true, it does show that the legislation was not crafted as carefully as it might have been, but that is often the case. That's what amendments are for. I thought I had read, though, that parents have to just show that they've started the process within a year and that they had a year to catch up. That makes more sense. It's still kind of hard. I suspect that the guidelines could also be loosened a bit. Perhaps kids don't need all 3 polio shots, for example. Maybe they could get one of each and then have their titers taken?

You can read the text of the bill here:
https://www.nysenate.gov/legis.....s2994
14 days to get the first one in each series. (polio, hep b, dtap, mmr-v, plus hib, pnuemococcal and meningococcal according to age). 30 days to show age-appropriate doctor appointments to catch up by June 2020. At which point one must be all caught up according to CDC schedule.

This repeal was not thought through. It was rammed through both houses and signed by the governor within 8 hours. If they really wanted to accomplish something, they wouldn't have bitten into a too big apple. This just gives fodder to anti-vaxxers regarding an agenda, a conspiracy, and further mistrust in the government and its laws.

Also, regarding titers for polio: Children need to have immunity to all the diseases, so theoretically titers for polio could work. But people whose child was partially vaxxed have already gone to the doctor in the last week and were told that the office cannot do hep b or polio titers. There's no standardized test and they don't know what to order on the lab papers, so they can't do it. And if you want immunity, just give the 3 shots. I wonder about why we've come to such a point where there's no titer testing for vaccines given. Vaccines trump titers. But isn't titers the goal?
Back to top

Mama Bear




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:45 pm
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
To add, I don't remember a single autistic kid in my age group either. (40+ yr old)

Haha. Bc then they were considered 'slow' or 'weird'. Now they are called 'autistic.'


amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

How many 10 year old autistic children do you know?

Proud mother here of a 10 year old autistic child....
Who got his MMR shot at 13 months of age, and started talking AFTER he got the shot. He started regressing 5 months later. There is no correlation between the shot and his diagnosis.
Back to top
  Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 10 of 11 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Are parents obligated to send to sleepaway
by amother
50 Yesterday at 2:35 pm View last post
[ Poll ] For parents who DO vaccinate, do you give the flu vaccine?
by amother
46 Thu, Dec 12 2019, 8:14 pm View last post
Chanuka gift for parents
by amother
8 Thu, Dec 12 2019, 1:06 pm View last post
Going to parents for shabbos
by amother
7 Thu, Dec 05 2019, 5:59 pm View last post
ADHD parents please help!!!! Guanfacine for ADHD
by amother
25 Thu, Nov 21 2019, 5:49 am View last post

Jump to: