Vaccine question | Imamother

amother

Orange

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:02 am

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

Despite its limitations the study is interesting.
What specifically jumped out at me was the 20% gap between the number of children who had a well visit checkup in the past 12 months.

Vaccinated 57.6%
Unvaccinated 37.2%

This is very revealing and discredits the results for me.

The participants were 91.1 % Christian.
All homeschooled.
62.8% of the unvaccinated children did not have a regular well visit.
This fits the profile of parents who are distrustful of the medical establishment and adhere to the Christian belief that G-d created perfect humans who need no intervention.

Can you explain why this discredits the results for you? If anything, I would think that they are a similar enough group for us to extrapolate from these results.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:03 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

Re: the bolded....what a joke! Doctors do not get paid much at all for giving vaccines. They'd get paid much more for treating a case of measles.

I trust my doctor who is a close family member and has many years experience with thousands of patients.

I don't think most docs are doing it for the money (though many definitely get kickbacks for using different products), but your argument doesn't make sense. They get paid every time you visit. I wouldn't visit my doc all that much if I didn't have to give so many shots. Measles would be a one time visit. Or no visit, bec. they don't want measles in their office, and there is no treatment available for it in any case...
I know this isn't really the norm, but my pediatrician's office has very often helped me over the phone (usually after hours, but often during)when a child wasn't well. That means they didn't get ANY visit, and I didn't have to pay a copay.

amother

Magenta

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:10 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Can you explain why this discredits the results for you? If anything, I would think that they are a similar enough group for us to extrapolate from these results.

Because:
1. The study relies on parents own reports.
2. Parents who do not take their children for regular well visits are much less likely to have their children tested and diagnosed with medical or neurological conditions.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:12 am

yksraya wrote:

What I'm actually trying to say is, that todays health issues haven't magically skipped the non vaxers, they too have kids with all kinds of issues, same as for kids who were vaxxed. Which basically means that the issues is not shots related but genetics etc. Not a study, but just some basic logic...

Anecdotal, but in my very own family, my vaccinated DC has a couple of health issues that my vaccinated DC's don't. And I know others who compare their vaxxed and unvaxxed kids who claim the same. These are actual, diagnosable issues.
I'm not one to claim that vaccines are the cause for all evil of the world. I myself am vaxxed and I don't have any of the issues my vaxxed DC has, but the repercussions are there for many children.
Comparing multiple children of the same family, when no other significant lifestyle change was made, is a good way of studying things.

amother

Natural

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:12 am

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but this reminds me of a recent study I was reading about regarding breastfeeding. After years and years of tauting breastfeeding as the absolute best way to feed babies and keep children healthier, recent research is showing that past studies are actually skewed. Because a greater percentage of women who breastfeed are also more educated and of higher income level - which in essence means their children are provided with better healthcare from day one.

See study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....7166/

I think a study on vaccination would bring up the same issues, as some posters above mentioned. Parents who are vaccinating are more likely to bring their children to doctors for any host of medical issues, and are probably more open to getting a diagnoses of things like ADD and autism than parents who in general shirk away from the healthcare community.

So results would be skewed from the onset.

amother

Ginger

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:13 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I see my Dr plenty of well visits that don't include vaccinations and I vaccinate on schedule.I pretty sure from age 6 to 11 there are no vaccinations and we go for yearly well visits. My doctor also scheduled a 30 month visit but you don't get vaccinations then.

amother

Oak

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:13 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I don't think you can wave away my point by saying it's a joke. Even if they make only 1$, (and it's more than that) already they have an interest, whether they like it or not, whether they'll admit it or not, whether they're a family member or not. Again I heard several things firsthand. You can't fully trust anybody.

yksraya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:15 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

And you are substantiating this claim by......???

For example, how do you know that learning disabilities is as common in non vaxxers as it is in vaxxers? Be specific please.
The fact that you have a friend Perel Roizy, who is a known anti vaxxer, and she has 2 children, blima ruchel, and chaim duvid, and they were both left back 3 times, does not prove your point.

Ok, so I can actually base it on something. Here goes.

I have 2 relatives who are anti vax, they both vaxed the first kid/kids and then became anti vax.

Relative 1: very smart brilliant kids, the older kids (vaxed) are just as smart as the younger kids (non vaxed).

Relative 2: some kids with severe learning disabilities. Oldest child (vaxed) has the disabilities, some younger kids (non vaxed) have the disabilities too.

I used to vax dd and some vaccines for ds, then I stoppes vaxing, and then I became pro vax again.

Dd (vaxed as baby) smart brilliant gifted bh.

Ds1: (vaxed only few vaccines) had some mild learning hardship, doing ok now.

Ds2. (vaxed only recently) is a very bright kid.

Ds3. (vaxed only recently) has some learning difficulty that he had prior to the vaxing.

(My other 2 kids are toddlers)

So there. I know it's not a study, but the study would be pointless and would most probably have similar results.

amother

Gold

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:15 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

The medical establishment as a whole makes way more money treating sick people than giving vaccines. And even if someone wouldn't visit the doctor for measles for the reasons you mentioned, overall doctors would have much busier practices if kids were not vaccinated. The notion that they are trying to make more money by vaccinating is absurd. Believe it or not, some doctors (probably most) actually care about their patients and want them to be healthy.

yksraya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:17 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Shots are given at well visits. They make more money on sick visits.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:24 am

yksraya wrote:

Shots are given at well visits. They make more money on sick visits.

I said above that I don't think they are doing it for the $$, but shots are gaurenteed: sick visits aren't. My kids had way more 'well visits' that were pretty much scheduled for shots, than sick visits.

amother

Gold

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:25 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

My family member makes no money by advising me to vaccinate my children as he is not their doctor.

It must be hard going through life feeling like you can't fully trust anybody.

Also maybe you could clarify what you mean by "I heard several things first hand"

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:29 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I agree with this a billion percent. I don't think docs go to medical school and residency and all that crazy trouble and then become a pediatrician to get rich off vaccinations. Its an absurd claim. However, they aren't making much money off sick visits. The money docs make off sick people are the global picture: The elderly, sick, infirm etc. in hospitals, rehabs, nursing homes, home care, etc. they are what make more money than the vaccinations.
Not sure why you think they'd be busier without vaccines...When I have a sick kid, I keep the kid home. I don't shlep them out to the doc. As I said earlier, the doc helps me over the phone for free. She's BH experienced enough to listen to me describe the problem, and since MOST times the advice is just to keep an eye and let it runs its course (whether you take in your child or not) they don't need to prescribe anything.

amother

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:30 am

yksraya wrote:

[u]

It's beyond not a study and your results are nothing but a personal story. There's a reason scientists don't include 6 samples in a study. We can't reasonably determine any conclusions from personal stories.

Here's my study: My oldest daughter twice ate mashed potatoes for dinner the night before a test. She performed better than usual both times. My conclusion is that eating mashed potatoes before a test will help a student achieve a better result.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:32 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

From the sound of it, I like your doctor... Smile

yksraya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:34 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Well visits for babies is crucial, to check the weight etc. I used to do well visits before I became pro vax too. So they just add the shots to the already existing well visit. Maybe add 2 more visits for the shots while they are a baby/toddler. And then the booster shots is maybe 2 more visits. That's not that many visits.

I guarantee you that if there were no vaccines, the drs offices would've been jammed! They would've made tons of money!

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:41 am

yksraya wrote:

No, If my kid is meeting milestones and gaining weight, I don't shlep him/her to the doc to catch the measles (JK I meant the other germs going around there.)Once a year is enough for me.
And for the 3rd time, why do you think their offices will be jammed? Before varicella, MOST kids with chicken pox were kept home. Not taken to the doc. Same thing for other vaccines.

amother

Gold

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:42 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

They'd be busier without vaccines because there would be more people with serious illnesses and ongoing issues arising from those illnesses. You are talking about simple viruses and things like that when you don't necessarily need medical attention especially if you doctor is willing to help you over the phone. Also, though I agree with your approach of not running to the doctor, many people do run to the doctor whenever they have a sick kid, even if or I you don't.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:43 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

You should be measuring babies head among other things.

yksraya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But your study is nonsense and mine is based on real facts...

So there goes your very reasonable request to have it studied...

Not smart to want kids to be non vaxed just to satisfy some looneys.

And just as a little side point. I'm sure there were plenty vaccine trials that did not pass the FDA. Vaccines have had plenty of testing to ensure safety. It's not so easily approved...