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Vaccine question

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Maybe

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:45 pm

A bill requiring such a study has been collecting dust for 6 years

https://www.govtrack.us/congre...../text

Who do you thinks is so afraid of such a study being done ?

I had all these "prevantable" diseases as a kid so did my siblings & many of my classmates.

Maybe

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:48 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

I'm no scientist, but I can imagine there are more people who die from having measles than people who die from NOT having measles. I can also imagine that people who have the measles get more measles symptoms than people who dont get the measles.
Just my assumption. Physical health question SOLVED.
What they should track, though, (and monitor and treat) are the mental health issues that these ppl have.

On my my block 10 kids had measles all are 100% healthy

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:57 pm

Maybe wrote:

On my my block 10 kids had measles all are 100% healthy

In my house half of my family had it (though the vaxxed one was the one who brought it into the house first) and we're all doing fine BH.
I'm waiting to see the 1/4 in the hospital, as the CDC claims occurs.
People here are complaining about 'unreported' cases they know about. If these are unreported, I guess they're not getting to the hospital, and from the many that are reported, how many arrived in the hospital.
I don't want even 1 person hospitalized on account of measles, but real life is showing me that stats are totally irrelevant to real life the way I see it.

amother

Olive

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:03 pm

momsrus wrote:

More children are surviving childhood today than they did when these diseases were rampant.

Seriously though, would your antivax relation be happy with any vaccine study other Than the one her quacks conduct

They believe that the disease was eradicated because of hygiene. there is a 3rd world country that people went down there and vaccinated everyone and guess what? Measles is till there.

momsrus

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:11 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

They believe that the disease was eradicated because of hygiene. there is a 3rd world country that people went down there and vaccinated everyone and guess what? Measles is till there.

Do you have proof?

southernbubby

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:30 pm

Maybe wrote:

On my my block 10 kids had measles all are 100% healthy

We hope that they are all healthy and that we won't see cases of SSPE, chas v'sholem, a decade or more from now.

amother

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:31 pm

momsrus wrote:

Do you have proof?

I wouldn't say that they believe the diseases were eradicated because of better hygiene. Rather, I would say they are not sure if it's better hygiene and living conditions, or the vaccine. The vaccine companies unequivocally tell us that it's the vaccine that did it. Let's see a current study that follows the lives of people who follow the entire CDC recommended vaccine schedule vs those that don't vaccinate at all.
I don't want to see a study done 10 years ago in a European country that had less than half of the current vaccine schedule.

southernbubby

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:34 pm

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

They believe that the disease was eradicated because of hygiene. there is a 3rd world country that people went down there and vaccinated everyone and guess what? Measles is till there.

Olive oil, there is no way on earth to vaccinate everyone in a country so even with Bill Gates best efforts, there will still be measles there. It takes several years of sticking to schedule with every baby born.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:40 pm

Maybe wrote:

On my my block 10 kids had measles all are 100% healthy

My siblings, my kids, my neices and nephews, and my friends’ kids have all been vaccinated, and all are 100% healthy.

Is this how we prove things?

Maybe

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:58 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

My siblings, my kids, my neices and nephews, and my friends’ kids have all been vaccinated, and all are 100% healthy.

Is this how we prove things?

Show me 1 safety study on any vaccine, using a real placebo !!!

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:02 pm

Maybe wrote:

Show me 1 safety study on any vaccine, using a real placebo !!!

No parent is signing their kids up for a placebo study. Either they want vaccinations, or they don’t.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:03 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

No parent is signing their kids up for a placebo study. Either they want vaccinations, or they don’t.

Placebo and double blind aren't the same thing...

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:04 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

No parent is signing their kids up for a placebo study. Either they want vaccinations, or they don’t.

They could find just like they find for other studies.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:09 pm

Maybe wrote:

Studies like this have already been done, comparing percentage of autistic children in vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The amount is pretty much the same throughout.

Japan stopped giving the MMR vaccine for a while after Wakefields study came out, and guess what? Diagnoses of austim continued to rise at the same rate.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:12 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I've seen children with complications from measles. However, since I work in healthcare, I am bound by HIPAA laws.

There is a reason you're not hearing about bad outcomes. It's because healthcare workers are not allowed to say, and those families sure aren't spreading the news.

In addition, no one is saying that everyone with measles won't fare well. In fact a large amount will do perfectly fine. However to deny the risk of complications seems foolish at best.

Maybe

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:16 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

No parent is signing their kids up for a placebo study. Either they want vaccinations, or they don’t.

Wrong !!!

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/.....70702

I hope you learn the truth the e-z way

Last edited by Maybe on Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:20 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Placebo and double blind aren't the same thing...

Double blind, yes. But is it a real placebo study if the parents know whether or not their kid got a placebo?

Plus, I would imagine that those who would volunteer for the placebo would have many lifestyle differences with those who want the vaccine. Too many confounding variables.

Maybe

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 3:40 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Funny how all you patients refuse to sign a HPPA form so u can "save" some lives. I can give you names & #s of kids who had measles & where cured from eczema ,asthma or life threatening dairy allergies.

eschaya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 4:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are many anti-vax graphs that show how the diseases were dropping prior to the advent of vaccines, and claim that this is due to better hygiene. Then you see very different looking graphs and data from the pro-vax camp (ie; >98% of all humanity, to include the vast majority of healthcare professionals and research scientists). So what is going on here?

If you look closely at the graphs from the 2 sides, you will see that the anti-vax graphs typically show MORTALITY from the diseases while the pro-vax graphs show INCIDENCE. And both are correct. Mortality from vaccine-preventable diseases dropped, because mortality from EVERYTHING has been dropping, and yes, hygiene definitely has played a part in this. So has improved medical management. If you were thrown from a horse and cracked your skull 100 years ago, your risk of mortality was quite high (especially if it was an open fracture with communication between the sterile brain and the outside world). Nowadays, you can have a very decent chance of living, possibly without even any long-term sequelae (this just happened to a family friend recently). An ICU stay, strong prophylactic antibiotics, good diagnostic imaging, neurosurgery... none of these used to be available. And more relevant to the topic at hand, 100 years ago if someone got polio that spread to the diaphragm, he would likely die. By the mid 1900s, he could be put in an iron lung and live. Perhaps a miserable life spent trapped in the iron lung, but this would show up as decreased mortality.
But to actually make incidence of the disease drop to near zero (in the US), as it has for many diseases (smallpox, diptheria, polio, measles - until the stupid antivaxxers worked to bring it back, mumps, rubella, CRS, Hib), you need vaccines - in conjunction of course with good health practices.

eschaya

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 4:43 pm

Maybe wrote:

Show me 1 safety study on any vaccine, using a real placebo !!!

There are certain ethical basics that guide research studies. If any given intervention is so obviously beneficial, you cannot create a study in which a cohort of subjects are denied that intervention.
Seatbelts save lives, correct? Yet on rare occasions they can also cause injury or even death. (Earlier this year we had a horrific case in our ED where a small child asphyxiated himself with his seatbelt, while his parents sat oblivious in the front seat. It was so traumatic that the hospital had to bring in social workers to help the ED staff deal with their emotions after trying in vain to resuscitate the child.) Of course, no one would ever advocate for a large scale study in which the long-term health of children who use and don't utlize seatbelts would be compared. But even if some person really wanted to do that study (perhaps a mother who unfortunately had a child who sustained internal injury during an MVC that was attributed to the seatbelt), a study like that would never be allowed to take place because it would be deemed unethical. In fact, there have been actual studies on medications that have been halted midway when initial data begins to show dramatic difference in outcomes.
Vaccines are among the top life-saving healthcare advances of all time! Thousands upon thousands of people have been spared death, disability and misery. You can't go ahead and conduct a randomized, placebo, blind study under any ethical guidelines. What you can do is compare retrospective data though. And this has been done many, many times. With the data showing - glaringly - that vaccines are incredibly safe (and do not cause autism, sids, asthma, etc).

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