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Laiya
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 Tue, Jun 18 2019, 6:19 pm
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The first mistake that people make is assuming a particular policy held by lifestyle magazines, which are private businesses, represents Torah values.
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Laiya
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 6:22 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | | The fact is, it's a slippery slope. Just look at frum women in Instagram. |
I wonder to what extent Instagram is a reaction to the policies of the lifestyle magazines. Perhaps if the magazines were more appropriately balanced, the public would demand different standards from the Instagrammers they follow.
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amother
Copper
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 6:27 pm
| amother [ Purple ] wrote: | Seriously? "Yuck"??? It's people like you, with attitudes like yours that really makes me question humanity sometimes, and particularly our frum community. There's so much negativity in regard to women, whether it's s*xuality, periods, mental health, careers, body image, beauty etc. and it really sickens me!
The Torah and Gemarah speak extremely highly about women, describing their beauty in eloquent, even poetic manners (Tziporah, Sarah, Shir Hashirim), respecting their knowledge and leadership (Bruria, Devorah). Our community has perverted tznius into suppression.
My opinion on magazines has always been: just like women would never dream of readin the publications that have pictures of the Chassidish Rebbes at a tish or simcha (for lack of interest, obviously), so too, men shouldn't be reading the Ami Living, Family First or Binah! Regardless of the pictures, the content, at times, isn't suitable for them to read anyway. If mothers are concerned about their sons getting a hold of these magazines and seeing these picture, 1) You or your husband should have an open and comfortable relationship with him so you can have healthy conversations about these things, and 2) for goodness sake, it's a picture of a woman advertising a new line of wigs? A picture of a rebbitzen that is being featured in an article? A chef, showcasing new recipes? SCANDALOUS!!!!! Stop acting like our magazines are printing pictures of scantily clad women trying to seduce our men into sin.    |
I wrote yuck because this thread is trying to give mishpacha credit for putting a picture of young girls in their magazine this week, when they were the ones who erased women from magazines in the first place. Mishpacha deserves no credit. They started a horrible phenomenon in our community. Yuck.
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amother
Lavender
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 6:40 pm
| amother [ Blush ] wrote: | | I just still want to see those shirtless bochurs Zehava mentioned. I imagine sitting indoors, hunched over a Gemara all day, makes them look just like Antonio Bandaras |
This has got to be the funniest post I've read all day!
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amother
Coral
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 6:53 pm
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Printing provocative pictures of women and omitting all pictures of women are radically different policies, but they have one thing in common: they objectify women.
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amother
Crimson
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 7:33 pm
Amother yellow wrote:
“It is a lot safer to make a blanket rule of "no women" then to get into these issues.”
This is how extremism begins.
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marina
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 8:00 pm
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No reason to worry about slippery slopes as if frum companies can’t manage to set up guidelines and rules for photos. If there’s anything orthodoxy excels at, it is creating a system with a gazillion rules and a myriad of details.
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PinkFridge
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 8:50 pm
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | My husband and I ran a community email list for several years, with local ads. We had guidelines we followed for pictures of women. Ads for women speakers who weren't covering collarbone/hair/knees were okay since they were advertising learning opportunities and the focus was on the woman's shiur, not her body, and the ads were not at all designed to be "attracting"; photos of community events of course showed people dressed in a variety of different ways since there are all types in our community; but ads for sheitels/makeup/clothing stores were sometimes problematic since sometimes they were too provocative and focused on looks and bodies in a distasteful way. A few times we had advertisers who were unhappy because we refused to publish an ad until it was fixed, but since we were very open about our guidelines, mostly people were fine with it. It was always interesting trying to make the right judgment call on some of the borderline ads.
Kol hakavod to Mishpacha for taking baby steps with the women's pictures thing! |
I'm not sure where your guidelines come from but I salute you for having guidelines.
I suspect many magazine readers would find them problematic. And would appreciate a paper having rabbinic guidance to set policy and help with judgment calls.
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amother
Smokey
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 8:53 pm
| amother [ Coral ] wrote: | | Printing provocative pictures of women and omitting all pictures of women are radically different policies, but they have one thing in common: they objectify women. |
Brilliant post.
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little neshamala
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 9:41 pm
| amother [ Coral ] wrote: | | Printing provocative pictures of women and omitting all pictures of women are radically different policies, but they have one thing in common: they objectify women. |
Well said! You hit the nail on the head.
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bluebaker
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Tue, Jun 18 2019, 11:26 pm
Little by little, trickle by trickle, wherever you go, there it is. Perfume is problematic as well. Just saying.
| ectomorph wrote: | | Well, I think it's terrible that liberalism and feminism has made inroads in our community. I'm glad that I refuse to read mishpacha. |
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LovesHashem
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:05 am
| amother [ Crimson ] wrote: | Amother yellow wrote:
“It is a lot safer to make a blanket rule of "no women" then to get into these issues.”
This is how extremism begins. |
Y'all gotta remember this isn't a reflection of Torah, Jews, and idealisms.
It's a business.
Making business decisions.
A smart business decision is to not enter politics too much or issue too much. People already know they don't put in pictures, the safest business route it to just keep on doing that.
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yerushamama
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 1:26 am
| LovesHashem wrote: | Y'all gotta remember this isn't a reflection of Torah, Jews, and idealisms.
It's a business.
Making business decisions.
A smart business decision is to not enter politics too much or issue too much. People already know they don't put in pictures, the safest business route it to just keep on doing that. |
THANK YOU! I kept trying to make that point on a different thread and got SO bashed for it!
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amother
Lemon
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:29 am
It's obvious to everyone, but the infuriating thing about this whole issue is that they won't admit it (guess they don't want to sound mercenary) and cloak it behind supposed religious reasons. Just look up the whole debate with Yisrael Besser. He kept referring to the mesorah (then was disproven by the Bais Yaakov ads of prewar Europe, not to mention the Jewish Observer magazine) then to some nameless gedolim (which, when pressed to name he couldn't come up with a single one and ignored the question).
And when people tried justifying the refusal to have innocent pics of little girls, and refused to admit how absolutely perverted and sick that is, that was the absolute worst. That's the real reason for any supposed bashing: cloaking greed and warped values behind piety.
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amother
Blonde
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:16 am
I am sitting here and trying to understand why you all so desperate to see women in a magazine.
And yes, some gedolim to see it as a problem. We recently published my grandfathers book, we went to a few leading gedolim for a bracha, they all told us to omit the picture of my grandmother.
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Rappel
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:29 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | | Sky, I agree the ad you posted is in poor taste, I would say not just for materialistic reasons but to me it subtly s*xualizes young girls. Eye makeup and a more mature "look" than the age of the model just seems wrong. But the rest of the pictures I looked through on that Insta account were sweet and age-appropriate. |
Hmm...
https://www.instagram.com/p/By.....hl=en
This one is a more extreme example, but I think we've become too desensitized to s-xualizing our girls. Haughty looks, angry stares... Clothing which hints at chests or butts or curves which aren't there...
You see it even in baby clothing, and it drives me insane. I'm the first person in line for flowers and ribbons on my daughter, but why do all the girl sets only come with tight leggings? Why on Earth are there ruffles on the butts???? It boggles the mind.
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amother
Lemon
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:39 am
Well, then, Blonde, can you name these gedolim? Because so far, nobody has. However, many well known and leading rabbanim, when asked, have said it's ok. I refer to Rabbi Adlerstein's essays on this topic.I
And, no, I'm not "desperate" to see pics of women. I just dislike the lack of honesty and obfuscation on this topic. The mags are trying to have it both ways, but won't admit the money being the deciding factor.
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amother
Blonde
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:39 am
| Rappel wrote: | Hmm...
https://www.instagram.com/p/By.....hl=en
This one is a more extreme example, but I think we've become too desensitized to s-xualizing our girls. Haughty looks, angry stares... Clothing which hints at chests or butts or curves which aren't there...
You see it even in baby clothing, and it drives me insane. I'm the first person in line for flowers and ribbons on my daughter, but why do all the girl sets only come with tight leggings? Why on Earth are there ruffles on the butts???? It boggles the mind. |
I guess you are from the authentic ppl living in Israel. Good for you!!!
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