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How do I find a mentor in my Judaism
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:33 am
As others have said, you won’t find the proof you’re looking for. Because it doesn’t exist. At the end of they day I’ve come to realize that people believe whatever they want to believe. And this is true for many things, not just religion. Few things in life are black and white. Many things boil down to intuition and faith. So no matter who you ask you will have a decision to make about what to believe in.
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kallateach




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:54 am
Any of the Kirov Rabbis deal with these questions all of the time.
As was mentioned Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb also Rabbi Tatz ,Rabbi Becher.


Last edited by kallateach on Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:05 am
The world is a mystery that we are born into. All we know is what the people before us figured out and bequeathed that knowledge to us. Or what we could figure out ourselves.

The world is obviously brilliantly designed. Which speaks for itself. But there’s no designer taking credit for it.

It’s like visiting a brilliantly designed mansion that takes your breathe away. But nobody knows who did it. Nobody is taking credit. It’s just there.

And each person based on their perceptions will wonder and come to a different conclusion regarding the mystery of the mansion.

Suppose that nobody knows who built it but it’s actually your father. Unbeknownst to you. When you examine the mansion something about it will feel familiar. The personality of the place will resonate with you and you will feel a connection without completely understanding why. Or you will immediately guess that it’s your father behind it. Because he’s a part of you literally and you share traits which leads you to find the clues and figure out the mystery. Even though there’s no proof.

You might feel you don’t need proof. Because the part of you from the inside that is like your father, recognizes the telltale signs of your father’s work. It all makes sense and therefore nothing could add or detract from what you instinctively know.

That explains the concept that we each have a Godly soul. It’s an actual piece of God. And therefore we instinctively recognize him when we see hints of him on this world. And we are compelled to find him and connect to him in order to go back to our source.

As far as does God need us. Need our prayers. As far as chassidush explains it. The answer is yes.

God in heaven. And the Godly soul we possess here on earth. Are one. And want the same thing.

But here on this earth the Godly soul is in a body. The body has its own soul. The animal soul. And there’s a struggle. They each want opposite things. The Godly soul is selfless and holy. And the animal soul only cares about its own survival and pleasure.

So there’s a constant conflict. That struggle is holy. Every time the Godly soul harnesses the animal soul towards good. Then kedusha is created in a very high form. Higher than the holiness of the higher worlds.

And our Godly soul is in partnership with God. Creating this holiness one mitzvah at a time. One triumph over the animal soul at a time. Until enough of that spiritual energy is produced and moshiach can come.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:20 am
sneakermom wrote:
The world is a mystery that we are born into. All we know is what the people before us figured out and bequeathed that knowledge to us. Or what we could figure out ourselves.

The world is obviously brilliantly designed. Which speaks for itself. But there’s no designer taking credit for it.

It’s like visiting a brilliantly designed mansion that takes your breathe away. But nobody knows who did it. Nobody is taking credit. It’s just there.

And each person based on their perceptions will wonder and come to a different conclusion regarding the mystery of the mansion.

Suppose that nobody knows who built it but it’s actually your father. Unbeknownst to you. When you examine the mansion something about it will feel familiar. The personality of the place will resonate with you and you will feel a connection without completely understanding why. Or you will immediately guess that it’s your father behind it. Because he’s a part of you literally and you share traits which leads you to find the clues and figure out the mystery. Even though there’s no proof.

You might feel you don’t need proof. Because the part of you from the inside that is like your father, recognizes the telltale signs of your father’s work. It all makes sense and therefore nothing could add or detract from what you instinctively know.

That explains the concept that we each have a Godly soul. It’s an actual piece of God. And therefore we instinctively recognize him when we see hints of him on this world. And we are compelled to find him and connect to him in order to go back to our source.

As far as does God need us. Need our prayers. As far as chassidush explains it. The answer is yes.

God in heaven. And the Godly soul we possess here on earth. Are one. And want the same thing.

But here on this earth the Godly soul is in a body. The body has its own soul. The animal soul. And there’s a struggle. They each want opposite things. The Godly soul is selfless and holy. And the animal soul only cares about its own survival and pleasure.

So there’s a constant conflict. That struggle is holy. Every time the Godly soul harnesses the animal soul towards good. Then kedusha is created in a very high form. Higher than the holiness of the higher worlds.

And our Godly soul is in partnership with God. Creating this holiness one mitzvah at a time. One triumph over the animal soul at a time. Until enough of that spiritual energy is produced and moshiach can come.

Very nice and flowery. And definitely enticing for those who want to believe it even though it doesn’t have any basis in reality.
But for someone who is really looking for answers this is all fluff.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:29 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
Very nice and flowery. And definitely enticing for those who want to believe it even though it doesn’t have any basis in reality.
But for someone who is really looking for answers this is all fluff.


I loved Sneakermom's post. She articulated well how some people have a higher-tuned sensitivity toward spirituality and feeling Hashem in their lives.
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IrenaFr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:33 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
Very nice and flowery. And definitely enticing for those who want to believe it even though it doesn’t have any basis in reality.
But for someone who is really looking for answers this is all fluff.

Yes, fluff and it’s all really chasidic theology , especially the part that Hashem needs our prayers . Not everyone in Judaism agree about that and other stuff . It could be true of course but we will never know in this life.
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:38 am
MountainRose wrote:
I'm not always sure Hashem exists. A lot of the time, especially when I'm davening, I think humanity must have made Him up in order to feel better about the random futility of reality. I've studied contemporary Near East religions - and the bulk of davening is disturbingly similar to how other nations would pray to their idols (or kings) during the time of the Beis Hamikdash. For instance, the Harachaman section of benching closely mirrors some preserved prayers to Enlil in Mesopotamia.


Hi MountainRose, I have so much respect for you that you are searching for answers. Many people who have questions don't bother to try, so the fact that you are bothered and searching means you care and it matters, so don't give up!

Regarding this specific point, the fact that other nations used to "daven" makes me think that Hashem is MORE real, not less. Belief in Hashem is one of the 7 Noahide Laws and is certainly not the monopoly of Jewish people. To me the fact that Hashem exists is a law of physics, so it is not surprising that other ancient Near East religions are aware of Him and strive to serve Him in similar ways. Benching in particular is pretty generic and it seems natural that most people ask for the same stuff (health, blessing the land and our homes, parnassa, freedom, etc) I think this would be surprising to someone who was raised to believe that Jewish people have been shtieging over a gemara since time immemorial while the rest of humanity has been dancing around like savages in the forest. There have been many times and places throughout history were Jewish people and non Jewish people have not been all that different in culture and behaviour. So I don't think this should be a reason for you to believe that Hashem doesn't exist.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:55 am
I also love sneakermom's answer and don't think it's all fluff. It's actually very logical: a creation needs a creator, and especially a world like ours, with so much intricate detail and wisdom, a Designer is just begging to be discovered.
At the same time, it's true that a leap of faith is still required. But that is part of the design too. If humans would have no choice but to believe, their belief in Hashem would be a forced reality based on how the world is presented, we would be robots, programmed to behave a certain way without the ability to choose. Hashem designed the world in a way that despite its brilliance, there still exists the possibility of bechira, so that we can be masters of our life and actually CHOOSE to recognize Him and to have a relationship with him. So the answers are all around us if we open our eyes, and seem so obvious once you do, but there will always be a degree of choice.
As far as tefilla, it's a continuation of the first answer. Hashem wants us to choose Him and then wants us to build a personal relationship with Him. It doesn't matter how many greater tzaddikim there are or how many women daven daily at the kosel. Like the poster of Uncle Sam pointing his finger at us, Hashem is saying, "I want YOU." I don't believe he "needs" our prayers, rather he WANTS our tefillos because he desires that we build a true, meaningful relationship with him. It's not abt using tefillos to "force a refuah," or as a segula, but rather to truly connect with Him in a personal way and build a bond that grows stronger each day.
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IrenaFr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:57 am
I love the book “The Great Partnership: Science, Religion, and the Search for Meaning” by rabbi lord Jonathan Sacks.
And his disputes with atheists on YouTube . Why the religion makes more sense than atheism for so many different reasons . For people coming from secular background he is very logical and convincing and without the fluff .
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:07 am
IrenaFr wrote:
I love the book “The Great Partnership: Science, Religion, and the Search for Meaning” by rabbi lord Jonathan Sacks.
And his disputes with atheists on YouTube . Why the religion makes more sense than atheism for so many different reasons . For people coming from secular background he is very logical and convincing and without the fluff .


It’s refreshing for me to hear honest feedback. To me chassidus is light. It clarifies the world. And is the very opposite of fluff.

I do have a highly intellectual daughter who might benefit from hearing rabbi Sacks. So I really appreciate you referencing him.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:11 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
I also love sneakermom's answer and don't think it's all fluff. It's actually very logical: a creation needs a creator, and especially a world like ours, with so much intricate detail and wisdom, a Designer is just begging to be discovered.
At the same time, it's true that a leap of faith is still required. But that is part of the design too. If humans would have no choice but to believe, their belief in Hashem would be a forced reality based on how the world is presented, we would be robots, programmed to behave a certain way without the ability to choose. Hashem designed the world in a way that despite its brilliance, there still exists the possibility of bechira, so that we can be masters of our life and actually CHOOSE to recognize Him and to have a relationship with him. So the answers are all around us if we open our eyes, and seem so obvious once you do, but there will always be a degree of choice.
As far as tefilla, it's a continuation of the first answer. Hashem wants us to choose Him and then wants us to build a personal relationship with Him. It doesn't matter how many greater tzaddikim there are or how many women daven daily at the kosel. Like the poster of Uncle Sam pointing his finger at us, Hashem is saying, "I want YOU." I don't believe he "needs" our prayers, rather he WANTS our tefillos because he desires that we build a true, meaningful relationship with him. It's not abt using tefillos to "force a refuah," or as a segula, but rather to truly connect with Him in a personal way and build a bond that grows stronger each day.

Classic circular reasoning
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:13 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
Classic circular reasoning


What do you mean by that? Can you explain?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:15 am
I like Rabbi Akiva Tatz. Really any Talmud of Rav Moshe Shapiro should have a good, clear answer.
That would include all the Ohr Somayach Rabbis. He gave shiur there for the hanhala.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:25 am
IrenaFr wrote:
Hashem for sure exist. Our universe exist , so Hashem . Everything has its creator. Modern physics says that all the energy (in atoms) coming from one source and this source has intelligence.
The other question- if all the theology of Judaism is true. That we could not be for sure of course. BUT for me the main prove that Jews are doing at least some of the things right - they continue to exist despite all of what happened to them . The immortal people despite immortal unexplainable antisemitism . I don’t need another prove that Torah is right at least about what saves Jews as a people .
But I do agree that some practices of Judaism are very not monotheistic. And we will never know if prayers work , but Torah also does not promise that . And the prayers mostly for us to begin with .
I am very practical and very logical person, I don’t believe but I see the prove of Torah and it’s laws in the history of Jews because there is no other logical explanation .


A few quick things:
I have heard it said that we don't use the word proof. Go to ohr.edu (I think that's the Ohr Sameiyach website) for the 2018 spring tour shiurim. Both Rabbi Tatz and Rabbi Gottlieb stressed that we can't prove anything but we can gather enough evidence to make a reasonable choice to believe. Kind of like researching surgeons for a delicate surgery. There is no 100% guarantee but one can make an informed decision that leads to inner peace.

As far as tefilla working, it always works. Not necessarily the way we intended but it's always valuable and has some positive effect.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:30 am
PinkFridge wrote:
A few quick things:
I have heard it said that we don't use the word proof. Go to ohr.edu (I think that's the Ohr Sameiyach website) for the 2018 spring tour shiurim. Both Rabbi Tatz and Rabbi Gottlieb stressed that we can't prove anything but we can gather enough evidence to make a reasonable choice to believe. Kind of like researching surgeons for a delicate surgery. There is no 100% guarantee but one can make an informed decision that leads to inner peace.

As far as tefilla working, it always works. Not necessarily the way we intended but it's always valuable and has some positive effect.

The bold was exactly my point. In order for bechira to exist, there cannot be 100% proof, but it can be an intellectual, reasonable conclusion. Believing has to remain a choice for belief to have any real value.
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IrenaFr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:37 am
sneakermom wrote:
It’s refreshing for me to hear honest feedback. To me chassidus is light. It clarifies the world. And is the very opposite of fluff.

I do have a highly intellectual daughter who might benefit from hearing rabbi Sacks. So I really appreciate you referencing him.

Chassidus is very beautiful theory and really helps many people to live their lives . But everyone builds in their mind their own model of our world based on his own experiences in life and knowledge. And it could not be compatible with chassidus .
For instance, people coming from genetics of nuclear physics can see the world differently. They can understand Hashem differently too .
I remember before knowing about Judaism I was really impressed by the book “The Biology of Belief ”
by Bruce H. Lipton . Because it was written by a scientist. About medicine and genetics.
Also the books about intelligence in a quantum physics.
So all this information really proved to me existence of the Intelligent Energy Source that creates our Universe .
I remember one of the lectures of Deepak Chopra (I don’t subscribe to his ideas of course) but the most striking for me as a secular person was and I don’t remember it completely but the main idea “when you look at a table you see a table . A flower on it . But what you don’t see s that every molecule of this table is actually an empty space with tiny parts of energy . And all this energy in our universe coming from the one and the only Source. And we created that way that we don’t see the energy but we see a table . But in reality , real reality it’s an empty space with moving energy . So is everything and everyone around us . Coming from one and only source.” And we also know now that every particle in our universe is created and recreated . Again and again . This is all of course from the nuclear physics.

So we can discuss where is in that energy is Neshama etc , do the energy needs our prayers or not . But it’s there . And it’s from one and the only source. And everything in our existence , that we know of , is that energy . And all that came from the Big Bang Smile But recreated constantly Smile
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:43 am
The following is copy pasted from Wikipedia so
I take no credit

Circular reasoning is fallacious because reasoning and justification must start with the known and then determine the unknown - in the case of circular reasoning, it starts with the known and ends up with the equally known, thus it proves nothing.

We shall prove that God exists.
The order and magnificence of the world is evidence of God's Creation.
Therefore, we know that God exists.
Here, it is assumed that God exists in order to satisfy the premise that "God's Creation" is evidence of his existence. There is no standalone argument here that connects existence to God's creation except the conclusion, which is that God exists. Note the slight structural differences in the argument to simple circular reasoning - the order of the world isn't implied by God's existence, but trying to use it as evidence of God's existence must assume he exists in the first place.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:47 am
IrenaFr wrote:
Chassidus is very beautiful theory and really helps many people to live their lives . But everyone builds in their mind their own model of our world based on his own experiences in life and knowledge. And it could not be compatible with chassidus .
For instance, people coming from genetics of nuclear physics can see the world differently. They can understand Hashem differently too .
I remember before knowing about Judaism I was really impressed by the book “The Biology of Belief ”
by Bruce H. Lipton . Because it was written by a scientist. About medicine and genetics.
Also the books about intelligence in a quantum physics.
So all this information really proved to me existence of the Intelligent Energy Source that creates our Universe .
I remember one of the lectures of Deepak Chopra (I don’t subscribe to his ideas of course) but the most striking for me as a secular person was and I don’t remember it completely but the main idea “when you look at a table you see a table . A flower on it . But what you don’t see s that every molecule of this table is actually an empty space with tiny parts of energy . And all this energy in our universe coming from the one and the only Source. And we created that way that we don’t see the energy but we see a table . But in reality , real reality it’s an empty space with moving energy . So is everything and everyone around us . Coming from one and only source.” And we also know now that every particle in our universe is created and recreated . Again and again . This is all of course from the nuclear physics.

So we can discuss where is in that energy is Neshama etc , do the energy needs our prayers or not . But it’s there . And it’s from one and the only source. And everything in our existence , that we know of , is that energy . And all that came from the Big Bang Smile But recreated constantly Smile


I don’t know. You’re sure you’re not a chassid? Your explanation sounds like chassidus:)

My question to you though is how did you deduce that there’s one creator of the energy that is being recreated constantly?

And how did it lead you to Judaism specifically?

I’m asking because my daughter is questioning things lately and she’s a real thinker. My “feely” answers don’t mean anything to her.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:54 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
The following is copy pasted from Wikipedia so
I take no credit

Circular reasoning is fallacious because reasoning and justification must start with the known and then determine the unknown - in the case of circular reasoning, it starts with the known and ends up with the equally known, thus it proves nothing.

We shall prove that God exists.
The order and magnificence of the world is evidence of God's Creation.
Therefore, we know that God exists.
Here, it is assumed that God exists in order to satisfy the premise that "God's Creation" is evidence of his existence. There is no standalone argument here that connects existence to God's creation except the conclusion, which is that God exists. Note the slight structural differences in the argument to simple circular reasoning - the order of the world isn't implied by God's existence, but trying to use it as evidence of God's existence must assume he exists in the first place.

Avraham Avinu started with no assumptions about monotheism or an existing God. He saw a magnificent world - "the known" - and concluded that it must have One Creator - which was for him "the unknown."
That same process of discovery can still happen today, without prior assumptions about God or a desire to prove God exists.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:54 am
DD7 has wanted to know who created God since she’s around 5. It’s fair question
Recently she also said that she doesn’t think God exists and maybe the parsha is made up.
I’m really glad she’s my daughter because another parent would have flamed her for this.
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