Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations
This explains my request for safety studies done in the US
  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 4:41 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
US has done woefully insufficient studies on individual vaccines, and no studies at all on its own vaccine schedule.
If you know otherwise, please point me in that direction.


try this https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....73970 ?
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 6:05 pm
nchr wrote:
The government should not be conducting tests, but I doubt that is what you'd want. Independent researchers conduct studies on vaccines all the time. The current schedule is studied, as are any potential future vaccines. Vaccines are improved. OPV was replaced with the IPV in the US. The measles vaccine was improved. We made an acellular pertussis vaccine that results in less adverse reactions than the previous one. We have a new pneumoccal vaccine.

If there is a specific concern you want looked at - and it has not already been examined in detail - or even if it has - then discuss that specific concern. Screaming "toxins" and "autism" don't get you anywhere because such concerns have been disproven and screaming pseudo science doesn't make your claims or concerns very reliable.

I.E. Let's say I'm concerned about Cipro being prescribed too often - and that the chances of severe side effects such as tendon tearing and heart damage are not worth the risk of utilizing other medications. I'd reach out to doctors - ask them to rather prescribe other medicines - I'd write to the CDC, FDA, etc. I'd hire an attorney to do it legally. This is a concern I have, but not to the point that I would market it - I don't believe in enforcing my opinions or concerns on others - I'm a look the other way kind of person, but many people - yourself included from the tone of this post - are not. So ask for change in a way that makes you seem reliable and stable not ignorant and biased.

On a side note, vaccine manufacturers even have incentives to appeal to anti vaxxers and create "green vaccines" such as Flucelvax.


When was DTaP replaced with DPT? Only after multitudes of parents complained was it researched. Research ought to be done BEFORE putting a pharmaceutical product into LAW. Make it available. Whoever wants to take the benefit of the vaccine along with the risk, be my guest. But how can it become mandated before full research came to the conclusion that it is as safe as can be? And how can I be certain that DTaP doesn't have other issues when the track record is to do research only after all our babies are shot up with it.

But besides that. Show me a study that tests the safety of our entire schedule. Not each vaccine against a previous vaccine.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 6:10 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
try this https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....73970 ?

Thank you. I'm wading through it.
Back to top

itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 6:11 pm
my request” “my religion”
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 6:21 pm
itsmeima wrote:
my request” “my religion”

I did respectfully request for civil discussion. Can you use your words to explain your post? If not, move along to the feminism and surrendered wife thread that's trending. Thank you.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 7:22 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
try this https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....73970 ?

This was very interesting. It's a great start.
I'd love to see more. Comparing cognitive regressions, neurological disorders, autoimmune conditions, cancer rates. I'm curious about why the study didn't compare the results in the ages of 0-23 months and only compared 24-47 months.
Back to top

nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 7:30 pm
But not all the vaccines ARE different. I've lived in 2 different countries and some of the vaccines were identical--the Merck MMR-II, for example, is the only one licensed in both the USA and Western Europe (for MMR specifically, the ProQuad for MMRV is available--but it's easy to see which you've gotten)
Back to top

amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 7:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
This was very interesting. It's a great start.
I'd love to see more. Comparing cognitive regressions, cancer rates. I'm curious about why the study didn't compare the results in the ages of 0-23 months and only compared 24-47 months.


I found that in fewer than 10 seconds via google.
Back to top

imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you. I'm wading through it.


This is exhausting. You could spend months wading through all the research that you're requesting. IT'S THERE. Why are you on this forum demanding answers that exist if you only take three seconds to look?
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:00 am
amother [ Green ] wrote:
I found that in fewer than 10 seconds via google.

Thank you. You saw that it's a very recent study?
Back to top

amother
Green


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 8:02 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you. You saw that it's a very recent study?


It was published over a year ago.
Back to top

nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 8:05 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
When was DTaP replaced with DPT? Only after multitudes of parents complained was it researched. Research ought to be done BEFORE putting a pharmaceutical product into LAW. Make it available. Whoever wants to take the benefit of the vaccine along with the risk, be my guest. But how can it become mandated before full research came to the conclusion that it is as safe as can be? And how can I be certain that DTaP doesn't have other issues when the track record is to do research only after all our babies are shot up with it.

But besides that. Show me a study that tests the safety of our entire schedule. Not each vaccine against a previous vaccine.


I think you meant DTaP replaced the DTP not the other way around. That was not a result of parental complaint, but of statistical adverse reactions. In the times of DTP, many children were given only partial doses at a time. The medical community acknowledged the chances of severe or uncomfortable reactions for some children and were working on something better. However, the DTP was better at stopping pertussis than the DTaP.

Yes, every time a new vaccine is added to the schedule it is tested in conjunction with the schedule and other vaccines to assess the likelihood of reactions or more severe reactions when given in combination with other vaccines. All vaccines are studied and tested in and of themselves and in combinations with others prior to being added to the recommended schedule. Vaccines are often also available (I.e. Hep B, Hep A, Chicken Pox, etc.) before being mandated which provides additional data too.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 8:29 am
nchr wrote:
I think you meant DTaP replaced the DTP not the other way around. That was not a result of parental complaint, but of statistical adverse reactions. In the times of DTP, many children were given only partial doses at a time. The medical community acknowledged the chances of severe or uncomfortable reactions for some children and were working on something better. However, the DTP was better at stopping pertussis than the DTaP.

Yes, every time a new vaccine is added to the schedule it is tested in conjunction with the schedule and other vaccines to assess the likelihood of reactions or more severe reactions when given in combination with other vaccines. All vaccines are studied and tested in and of themselves and in combinations with others prior to being added to the recommended schedule. Vaccines are often also available (I.e. Hep B, Hep A, Chicken Pox, etc.) before being mandated which provides additional data too.

Of course I meant DTaP replaced DTP! TMI

How are adverse reactions recorded/reported if not through parents reporting them? Why weren't these adverse reactions noted prior to mandating?

Your second paragraph, I know that's what is said. I want to see these studies. The Hep B from Merck study that I saw was tested for five days.
Back to top

nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:02 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Of course I meant DTaP replaced DTP! TMI

How are adverse reactions recorded/reported if not through parents reporting them? Why weren't these adverse reactions noted prior to mandating?

Your second paragraph, I know that's what is said. I want to see these studies. The Hep B from Merck study that I saw was tested for five days.


I didn't say parents don't report adverse reactions. I said the DTP was replaced because of medical recognition of potential reactions - not because parents were screaming quackery. That's part of the problem now - when people scream ideas that have been scientifically disproven they lose credibility so their other concerns may not come through. Besides for that, parents who gave the DTP knew about the potential adverse reactions, which is why some children were given half doses. Parents were told to not give a DTP and just DT to children who screamed for extended amounts of time after receiving a DTP or to give a smaller dose, etc. They knew what to look out for. I'm not sure why you think we don't mention potential adverse reactions, when we do. The chance of a potentially severe adverse reaction to MMR is about 1 in 1 million or 4 million. There are other less severe reactions such as seizures, pain at the injection site, etc. which parents can look out for but the vast majority of children who are immunized have no reaction at all.

Are there risks you think exist that are being hidden or have not been studied? What are they? Studies have probably been done to evaluate them, and if not, you can work with a medical advocate and attorney to find a request, ask for funding, etc. to get a university to conduct the study if possible. I actually have a list of some of the combined studies at home, but I am in my office now, but if you are interested, I can post them later. Science can also only evaluate a general, overall risk and not a statistic anomaly which I suppose can exist, but it is unlikely that they do.

Many of the anti vaxxers I know in real life don't believe vaccines are actually harmful. They are usually anxious parents, maybe even helicopter parents, that want to over protect their children and feel a sense of control to calm the anxiety of "I want to make sure my child does not even have the slightest risk of anything." They are emotional decision makers in regard to vaccines, who when asked logically about their decisions, admit that factually speaking their decision to not vaccinate is fear-based. Many of them would vaccinate during an outbreak and know that they only have the opportunity to not vaccinate because of those who do. These are non frum, many non Jewish, individuals who understand germ theory, etc. I think part of the issue in the frum community is lack of scientific education and the idea that many people are following a crowd and spewing really insane quackery. The anti vaxxers I know would be ashamed to say things like children should get measles or it is a mild disease, etc. so I think those who spew stuff like that have a hard time being listened to because it is comparable to saying the sun revolves around the earth or that ebola is bacterial.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:39 am
nchr wrote:
I didn't say parents don't report adverse reactions. I said the DTP was replaced because of medical recognition of potential reactions - not because parents were screaming quackery. That's part of the problem now - when people scream ideas that have been scientifically disproven they lose credibility so their other concerns may not come through. Besides for that, parents who gave the DTP knew about the potential adverse reactions, which is why some children were given half doses. Parents were told to not give a DTP and just DT to children who screamed for extended amounts of time after receiving a DTP or to give a smaller dose, etc. They knew what to look out for. I'm not sure why you think we don't mention potential adverse reactions, when we do. The chance of a potentially severe adverse reaction to MMR is about 1 in 1 million or 4 million. There are other less severe reactions such as seizures, pain at the injection site, etc. which parents can look out for but the vast majority of children who are immunized have no reaction at all.

Are there risks you think exist that are being hidden or have not been studied? What are they? Studies have probably been done to evaluate them, and if not, you can work with a medical advocate and attorney to find a request, ask for funding, etc. to get a university to conduct the study if possible. I actually have a list of some of the combined studies at home, but I am in my office now, but if you are interested, I can post them later. Science can also only evaluate a general, overall risk and not a statistic anomaly which I suppose can exist, but it is unlikely that they do.

Many of the anti vaxxers I know in real life don't believe vaccines are actually harmful. They are usually anxious parents, maybe even helicopter parents, that want to over protect their children and feel a sense of control to calm the anxiety of "I want to make sure my child does not even have the slightest risk of anything." They are emotional decision makers in regard to vaccines, who when asked logically about their decisions, admit that factually speaking their decision to not vaccinate is fear-based. Many of them would vaccinate during an outbreak and know that they only have the opportunity to not vaccinate because of those who do. These are non frum, many non Jewish, individuals who understand germ theory, etc. I think part of the issue in the frum community is lack of scientific education and the idea that many people are following a crowd and spewing really insane quackery. The anti vaxxers I know would be ashamed to say things like children should get measles or it is a mild disease, etc. so I think those who spew stuff like that have a hard time being listened to because it is comparable to saying the sun revolves around the earth or that ebola is bacterial.

I want to continue this convo but I need to go out now. Be back later tonight iyH.
Back to top

ShishKabob




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:11 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I appreciate the time you took to find this, and I will read through it fully. But my point wasn't to address this specific issue. My point is that different vaccines are produced differently in different countries. Additionally and not mentioned in my OP, different countries have different vaccine schedules, different amount of boosters.

Therefore, studies done in other countries, with their vaccines and their schedules, shouldn't be used as proof for the safety of our schedule and vaccines. Our government has an obligation to prove the safety of something before mandating it.


Fair enough
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:53 pm
nchr wrote:
I didn't say parents don't report adverse reactions. I said the DTP was replaced because of medical recognition of potential reactions - not because parents were screaming quackery. That's part of the problem now - when people scream ideas that have been scientifically disproven they lose credibility so their other concerns may not come through. Besides for that, parents who gave the DTP knew about the potential adverse reactions, which is why some children were given half doses. Parents were told to not give a DTP and just DT to children who screamed for extended amounts of time after receiving a DTP or to give a smaller dose, etc. They knew what to look out for. I'm not sure why you think we don't mention potential adverse reactions, when we do. The chance of a potentially severe adverse reaction to MMR is about 1 in 1 million or 4 million. There are other less severe reactions such as seizures, pain at the injection site, etc. which parents can look out for but the vast majority of children who are immunized have no reaction at all.


DTP was not replaced because of "potential reactions." It was replaced because of actual reported reactions and a decline in its use BECAUSE of its side effects. https://www.apha.org/policies-.....ccine

nchr wrote:
Are there risks you think exist that are being hidden or have not been studied? What are they? Studies have probably been done to evaluate them, and if not, you can work with a medical advocate and attorney to find a request, ask for funding, etc. to get a university to conduct the study if possible. I actually have a list of some of the combined studies at home, but I am in my office now, but if you are interested, I can post them later. Science can also only evaluate a general, overall risk and not a statistic anomaly which I suppose can exist, but it is unlikely that they do.

Yes. I do believe there are risks that are being dismissed by doctors and therefore not being studied. Too many reactions are invalidated as "coincidental" and never make it to VAERS.

nchr wrote:
Many of the anti vaxxers I know in real life don't believe vaccines are actually harmful. They are usually anxious parents, maybe even helicopter parents, that want to over protect their children and feel a sense of control to calm the anxiety of "I want to make sure my child does not even have the slightest risk of anything." They are emotional decision makers in regard to vaccines, who when asked logically about their decisions, admit that factually speaking their decision to not vaccinate is fear-based. Many of them would vaccinate during an outbreak and know that they only have the opportunity to not vaccinate because of those who do. These are non frum, many non Jewish, individuals who understand germ theory, etc. I think part of the issue in the frum community is lack of scientific education and the idea that many people are following a crowd and spewing really insane quackery. The anti vaxxers I know would be ashamed to say things like children should get measles or it is a mild disease, etc. so I think those who spew stuff like that have a hard time being listened to because it is comparable to saying the sun revolves around the earth or that ebola is bacterial.

I am not familiar with the same anti-vaxxers you are, apparently. Most whom I know belong to two groups. Either they are completely health-minded in all areas of their lifestyle and are concerned about how vaccines mess with their system, injecting foreign matter, preservatives, and viruses. They are the ones who will also refrain from microwaves, hormonal birth control, and extensive cell phone usage. They'll aim for organic produce and homemade from scratch food products. The second group I know, and those are the more vocal ones either experienced an adverse reaction themselves or saw it in a close family member or friend.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:54 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
Fair enough

Thank you. But who's listening?
Back to top

amother
Magenta


 

Post Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:37 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
try this https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....73970 ?

This study seems to investigate whether vaccinated children get sick ("non-vaccine targeted infections") more often than unvaccinated children when they are 2-4 years old.

The study is rather small, under 1000 participants. I may be misunderstanding, but it appeared that most/all participants were at least partially vaccinated. The study was looking at the number of antigens in the vaccines received (a number that is flexible based on various factors, including year of birth and combo vaccines received), and whether they correlated to an increase in acute infections that were not vaccine-preventable. (Spoiler: They did not find such a correlation.)

Interesting note from the study: "VPDs are rare in the United States."

This does not address how the numbers scale when we are discussing millions of children in each birth cohort, whether unvaccinated children have an advantage years later in autoimmune or other chronic or acute conditions, or what conditions correlate to higher incidence of vaccine injury.

Not exactly the study OP is looking for.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Jun 22 2019, 10:17 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
This study seems to investigate whether vaccinated children get sick ("non-vaccine targeted infections") more often than unvaccinated children when they are 2-4 years old.

The study is rather small, under 1000 participants. I may be misunderstanding, but it appeared that most/all participants were at least partially vaccinated. The study was looking at the number of antigens in the vaccines received (a number that is flexible based on various factors, including year of birth and combo vaccines received), and whether they correlated to an increase in acute infections that were not vaccine-preventable. (Spoiler: They did not find such a correlation.)

Interesting note from the study: "VPDs are rare in the United States."

This does not address how the numbers scale when we are discussing millions of children in each birth cohort, whether unvaccinated children have an advantage years later in autoimmune or other chronic or acute conditions, or what conditions correlate to higher incidence of vaccine injury.

Not exactly the study OP is looking for.

It's something. But, no, it's not what I meant. And a year ago is way too recent for something that's been mandated for way longer than that.
Back to top
Page 2 of 9   Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Safety during the Solar Eclipse
by amother
28 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:42 pm View last post
Anyone done Bright Lines plan?
by amother
0 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 6:44 am View last post
13 candle segula. How is this done??
by amother
5 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 11:53 pm View last post
No secular studies - Interesting POV. 4 Fri, Mar 15 2024, 5:56 am View last post
This is what weight loss shots have done
by amother
60 Mon, Mar 11 2024, 9:13 pm View last post