Is DD spoiled or justified?

Dina2018

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:03 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I have one 12 yr old daughter kh and my mother buys her beautiful Shabbos clothing. I have a whole pile of clothing she's grown out of that I would love to give to a less fortunate family (especially since we live out of town where Shabbos clothing is hard to get), but DD puts up such a fuss whenever I bring it up - I did it once before and she said it was so embarrassing for her that her friend's younger sister was wearing her clothing (we're a small community so everyone knows everyone) - all her friends kept asking her "is that your old clothing?". I tried validating her feelings and explaining to her what a z'chus it is to do such chessed, but she isn't going for it.

So now I'm going through this pile of clothing and getting ready to sell to a second-hand store, but it's such a shame to get rid of this gorgeous clothing when another family could really use it. Is my daughter being spoiled or should I take her feelings into consideration and just get rid of it?

Can you send it to gmach in another city maybe?

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:03 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

OP's daughter is bas mitzvah age. She deserves to have her feelings taken into account without being labeled as defective.

If OP said she never wanted to do any chessed, perhaps I would agree with you. But not every chessed is right for everyone, and it doesn't make them a bad person to say no.

The same people who kept the clothes on the floor asked to borrow some things of DC. They tried using the chessed argument, but they were so disrespectful with the hand me downs, that it was easy to decide to say no.

Exactly. Bas mitzvah age is exactly the right time to teach that greed, vanity, and lack of kavod for others is not tolerated as middos in my house. Take the kid's feelings into account, sure. Listen to her and see what her issue is. In this case, this girl is expressing that she feels the intended recipient is a nerd and does not want to be connected in that way to her. Really? That would never fly in my house. If her feeling was that she wanted to keep the clothes for herself or a much younger cousin or whatever, ok, listen to that. If she had another friend's little sister in mind for the clothes, I hear that too. But to davka say "not that girl, she's nerdy. And not in my community, I want to be the ONLY one here with such cool clothes... nope. That's vain and greed.

Any as for your hand-me-downs that you keep mentioning - once you part with something for good, its no longer your to control. They can sell it, wear it, use it to line the guinea pig's cage... its up to them once its theirs. And you can decide not to give them more of your stuff. But you cant control what other people do with their things.

SixOfWands

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:10 pm

watergirl wrote:

I agree with you wholeheartedly on para 2. You can't control what others do with hand me downs. Even if you lovingly hand washed every item and ensured that it was folded with tissue between wearings, the recipient has the right to wear it to play paintball.

As to para 1, though, I think that you've hit the problem. Maybe if no one noticed, the child would be OK. Its the constant barrage of "Oh, wasn't that your dress" that's embarrassing for her. So maybe giving it elsewhere would help.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:15 pm

watergirl wrote:

But I can decide not to give them more or lend anything else. I don't think it is wrong to want to give something to someone who would appreciate it.

My mil lovingly bought many of the items my kids outgrew. It doesn't sit right with me to see the stuff on the dining room floor. I didn't like that my friend sold my top. I feel played. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

So we are in agreement that OP's daughter should have some say in what happens to her cast-offs. OP should ask her daughter where she wants her old clothes to go without her daughter being labeled.

I get requests for certain clothes of mine and my kids from time to time. Those requests make me exceedingly uncomfortable. Perhaps, OP's daughter has ther same discomfort.

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:16 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Could be. But the issue to me seems to be that the daughter thinks this kid is a nerd and THAT'S why she doesn't want to give it to her. I would not deal with this kindly if it were my kid. We can literally help our kids overcome these feelings.

amother

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:17 pm

watergirl wrote:

I appreciate your response and thoughts. I think you are getting hung up on the nerd part. DD never actually said that she thinks anyone is a nerd (she would feel the same exact way if it were to go to one of her friends, but it probably doesn't help when it's a younger kid (younger grades are by definition nerdy when you're in 6th grade)) and her embarrassment is not because she doesn't want someone else to have nice clothing. She has 3 or 4 Shabbos outfits per season and she wears them all season (half a year) long. They become part of her superficial identity, and all her friends recognize them. It makes her uncomfortable to have someone else in our small circles wearing them after her.

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:19 pm

watergirl wrote:

I agree that this is the right age (in fact, it's a little late!) but as to what's not tolerated in my house, I have to take my child into consideration. OP's daughter may be more sensitive or more high-strung, she may have different considerations that she must take into account. It's not always a good idea to force our kids into a corner and tell them this is the right thing to do, so you better measure up or else. I think a mother usually knows that her daughter is capable of, and what will just affect her relationship to mitzvos, make her resentful, etc...some kids are just not mature, for whatever reason, there are individual needs that have to be considered.

I have an 11 year old DD, so I'm somewhat familiar with the challenges present in this age. Though this particular situation is not a challenge for her (she loves giving her clothes to her cute cousins - and maybe that's easier than to someone else, who knows...) there are other areas where I find that I have to be patient and accept the reality that she is (making her bed, for example, or putting her clothes away...and let's not discuss the amount of nosh she thinks is reasonable and absolutely necessary for every trip in school or camp....) and how she feels about things (all of which have no relationship with what her big sisters were like at her age...).

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:22 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

I agreed with you on the bolded point. Moving forward, you can give it to someone else or sell it yourself, whatever. I get it and I understand you. But once you DO give it away, its gone.

Maybe I'm not typical? My daughter has great taste in clothes and she and I both laugh and feel good when one of my friends calls dibs on it. I've even said, in front of a friend, "Daughter, keep it clean, thats going to soandso when you're done with it". Or maybe this is why my daughter is so cool with giving away her stuff to our friends - because its just part of the culture in my house.

We are in agreement that the daughter should have some say - but I do not think that she should be able to say to give it to a random clothing gmach in Othertownsville. It goes to this friend or that friend. If she has someone else in mind - fine. Not some other place just to get it out of my town. See the difference?

And yes, if she is behaving in a vain manner about not wanting this particular kid to have it - her behavior will be called vain.

watergirl

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:25 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not as mystified as most people are about her embarrassment. Living out of town - the clothing she wears is unique and everyone recognizes it. It feels special to her. Then to have someone else's nerdy (in her eyes) younger sister walking around wearing it and having everyone point that out - is embarrassing to her. I still think the chessed should outweigh that feeling, but I understand her.

See where I got the nerd part from?

And I still hold by my thoughts, although I will end here. She can learn resilience and not to be uncomfortable.

Hatzlacha with whatever you decide.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:44 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Lets be clear, op NEVER SAID THESE PPL WHO WORE THE HAND ME DOWNS WERE DISRESPECTFUL, so pls don't compare this situation to the situation where the receiver was throwing the hand me downs on the floor.....

amother

Maroon

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 2:57 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

I sewed a lot of DD's clothes when she was little, and I passed them down in a small OOT community. We saw those clothes on other kids all the time, and they were very distinctive.

DD was thrilled that other kids could enjoy the things she grew out of, and was always happy to share.

I'm wondering what needs to be done to get your DD's chinuch in line.

I grew up receiving alot of hand-me-downs from other people, but my mother always passed on any hand-sewn clothes. I would not have been caught dead in them. At least with bought clothes, they were not clearly so-and-so's hand-me-downs.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:06 pm

I didnt have time to finish my post....

You asked if your dd is spoiled? Well, I think she is. I was the receiver of hand me downs and I was grateful to anyone who gave me bec. As much as your dd loves her clothes, well, can she imagine if she wouldn't be able to buy clothes??

Can she imagine if she was forced to wear "whatever is available"? Can she imagine only having one shabbos outfit that one is afraid to go to social functions bec of lack of clothes?

The fact that she's labeling the other girl a nerd makes me think she's spoiled and is looking down at the other girl.

I agree with everything watergirl said BUT CHAYELLE made a GREAT POINT. You won't gain anything by ignoring your dds feelings. You wont gain by forcing her.

How to teach empathy?? Well, it really starts when kids are young, not at 12. In my opinion and wat I do is always exposed my kids to less fortunate kids who don't have what they have. And, I always shared stories of how "isn't nice how Mr. Smith spent his money to buy Mrs. Gold food ?"... I tried to ingrain into them when they were younger. Of course,my way is not the only way.....and, sometimes kids are not into chesed and are not empathetic.

I also think if kids are spoiled, they may have a hard time learning empathy especially if they are not exposed to....
But, I'm not naive! I know there are some spoiled kids who are empathetic.......I know I can't Make generalizations. .....but, I do believe kids who call others nerdy"" think they are superior, and if they think they are superior, then how do you expect them to have sympathy /empathy for the "nerd"???

First, before chesed, I think kids need to learn that we are all "zelem elokim" and are all important. So, kids shouldn't look down at others and judge them as "nerds".

So, yes, my answer to your question is that she sounds spoiled. You even said her clothes are very special to her. It seems she values her clothes more than the person wearing it. That sounds spoiled/entitled/ like she thinks she is superior.

I forgot to add:: If her friends/ppl in the community are asking your dd "are those your clothes?" That also shows a lack of empathy on their part. It can be embarrassing for a person who gets the hand me downs for everyone to know. Isn't It lashin Hara for them to be talking about wat another girl is wearing?

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

your daughter is not spoiled. Listen to her feelings.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:31 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

Interesting perspective Hotpink. I don't agree with all your posts here but I do relate to some of what you are saying. Some people are more attached to their belongings and put more of their identity into them.

Yes, and I think that's opposite of torah values. Valuing materialistic possessions more than helping ppl or more than valuing ppl themselves is wrong. Noone is taking their clothes with them to their grave, but they do take theirmitzvos! If someone values their clothes and they dont fit, what do they want to do with their clothes??? Keep them in the closet without wearing them bec they are special????