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Why do you want women in a Magazine
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Poll

Why do you want women in magazines
For inspirational reasons (Role Models)
 20%  [ 33 ]
I believe equal for men and women
 21%  [ 34 ]
Only little girls
 15%  [ 24 ]
It's not a halacha, I don't believe in Chumros
 42%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 159


Angel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:09 am
I believe the other thread is all heated up.
Some want for inspirational reasons and some cant understand why you cant have women at all.
If it's for inspirational reasons then putting an old picture as someone has mentioned wont do justice.
What are your opinions?
I personally couldnt care less. It never bothered me not to see women.
The problem if we will have women in magazines is that it will take me much longer to read. I wont have time to tend to my kids since I will be soo busy analyzing the women from head to toe. LOL
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:26 am
Add to the poll-

-I don't think it's a chumra. There's nothing more or better about it.
-It's annoying to read 2,000 words about someone and to have no idea what they look like.
-I think that editorial decisions in the written word are so much more fraught with the possibility of being anti-Torah or dangerous than a simple picture
-I think it's cowardice. I don't think anyone at the magazines really believe that the JO was doing the wrong thing. They're afraid of the radicals. And I hate when the radicals are the ones who control what is and isn't acceptable in our world
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:34 am
more

-the message is that a woman can never be tzanua enough (and close ups of men on the cover- so close that you can count their blackheads- can never be immodest)
-It relies on historical revisionism. Firstly, pretending that pictures never existed in frum media. Second, only pictures devoid of women are published so that the shtetl looks like a male only colony
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amother




Rose


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:41 am
First, I want women in magazines for the same reason I want men in magazines. A picture gives a fuller sense of the person and makes it easier to identify with him or her.

Second, I oppose the distortion of halacha. You don't get to invent new halachos to meet someone's silliness.

And third, when you remove women from the public sphere, you objectify them and set the stage for violence against women. Those cultures that keep women most covered up and shut away (I know, like diamonds) are the ones with the most violence against women. We surely do not want to go in that direction.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:41 am
I want women in magazines because to not have them is a chumra. Full stop, thats it.

And if one takes away women, why not just take away men as well.
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amother




Rose


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:45 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I want women in magazines because to not have them is a chumra. Full stop, thats it.

And if one takes away women, why not just take away men as well.


It's not a chumra. A chumra has some basis in halacha.

People can keep all the chumras they want. I have a few myself. They can't rewrite Torah.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:47 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
It's not a chumra. A chumra has some basis in halacha.

People can keep all the chumras they want. I have a few myself. They can't rewrite Torah.
The person who believes this is halacha will also believe this is a chumra. But you are correct. I phrased that wrong. This is a complete distortion of halacha.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:47 am
I dont read these magazines, but,
I guess we can say that the magazine that dont have women dont cater for you ?
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amother




Rose


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 3:56 am
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
I dont read these magazines, but,
I guess we can say that the magazine that dont have women dont cater for you ?


Indeed, they are not catering to me. But they are sending dangerous messages to other Jews, and I care about other Jews.

Also, ideas that were once considered kooky have a tendency to seep into the mainstream. I absolutely do not want it to be normal for women to be invisible.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:00 am
Even though in my circles it's accepted to post pictures of women. I picked up the Ami some weeks ago when I stayed by a cousin. Didnt even bother me that they didnt have pictures of women.
I guess you like to be seen.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:01 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
Indeed, they are not catering to me. But they are sending dangerous messages to other Jews, and I care about other Jews.

Also, ideas that were once considered kooky have a tendency to seep into the mainstream. I absolutely do not want it to be normal for women to be invisible.
This, 100%.


https://www.chochmatnashim.org/
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:03 am
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
Even though in my circles it's accepted to post pictures of women. I picked up the Ami some weeks ago when I stayed by a cousin. Didnt even bother me that they didnt have pictures of women.
I guess you like to be seen.


bad-faith. Reread what bothers us and try to understand it instead of making this into a desperate bid for attention.
I'll never be in a magazine picture anyway. I'm not famous and I don't write. Don't reduce my argument to that.
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Angel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:07 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
This, 100%.


https://www.chochmatnashim.org/


Who are these women endorsed by?
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amother




Khaki


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:24 am
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
Even though in my circles it's accepted to post pictures of women. I picked up the Ami some weeks ago when I stayed by a cousin. Didnt even bother me that they didnt have pictures of women.
I guess you like to be seen.


I guess you like to be invisible?
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amother




Copper


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:34 am
I’ll put in my answer from the other thread:

Not including women presents a false world that doesn’t really exist. Women appear in streets, stores, offices, parks, at Simchos, around the Shabbos (and Yom Tov) table, etc. Why should they not appear in pictures and/or depictions of those places? Why present a distorted view that does not match reality? After all, women of all types can be regularly seen in real life in all those places. Why is it so much more harmful to see women/girls in books, magazines, and newspapers (where their tznius level can be monitored and accounted for)?

As an example - Hamodia published a picture of the Chofetz Chaim in front of his house. It is only because I have the same picture in my dining room, that I realized that the Chofetz Chaim’s wife and daughter were photoshopped out of the picture. (Do you think they were dressed inappropriately?). I hid that magazine so that my young daughter would not see that picture and realize that nothing in the Hamodia could be trusted, since it is all (even what is presented as history) edited to suit a certain world view. I didn’t want her to distrust all that she sees (as I now do).

And that’s all besides the very disturbing message, that no matter how tzniusdik a woman or girl dresses, her very existence is a $exual provocation, and she must, therefore, be erased. What kind of message does that send to our girls? to our boys? to the world at large? to us?
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Forrealx




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:36 am
It's not halacha,
The extremism in modesty in the (ultra)orthodox world is sickening and not at all derech eretz.
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amother




Puce


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:45 am
The omission of young girls as well as women is truly disgusting, because the no-picture policy absolutely is s*xualization.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 4:46 am
Forrealx wrote:
It's not halacha,
The extremism in modesty in the (ultra)orthodox world is sickening and not at all derech eretz.


I believe in: "live and let live!" If they are happy, why does it bother you?
Dont go around changing the world but yourself!

There was a very interesting article in a chabad newsletter once, will see if I can find it.
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amother




Navy


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 6:06 am
I find people's reactions here very disturbing. No one is trying to "erase" women from our lives - public or private. This was most likely a business / editorial decision. Most people have things that they find disturbing or distasteful in magazine pictures and ads. Some people are offended by certain styles, others by certain colors, others by makeup, poses, pouty expressions, and on and on. True, articles about chashuve women would probably not have these issues, but since we aren't talking about things which are assur, drawing a line becomes difficult. Whatever they choose to allow or not include would be sure to offend someone.

Comparing it to Arabs or even cults like Lev Tahor is very offensive. Women in Yiddishkeit have tremendous value, and I do not believe that not putting their pictures in magazine will change that.

I used to be offended when frum salespeople, technicians, etc preferred speaking to my husband, or didn't look me in the eye, After a while, I grew up, and realized that it is their issue, not mine. Just get over it already!
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 20 2019, 6:17 am
amother [ Navy ] wrote:
I find people's reactions here very disturbing. No one is trying to "erase" women from our lives - public or private. This was most likely a business / editorial decision.


Yes. It's a business decision. Yes, it excludes women and girls in a creepy way.


Quote:
Most people have things that they find disturbing or distasteful in magazine pictures and ads. Some people are offended by certain styles, others by certain colors, others by makeup, poses, pouty expressions, and on and on. True, articles about chashuve women would probably not have these issues, but since we aren't talking about things which are assur, drawing a line becomes difficult. Whatever they choose to allow or not include would be sure to offend someone.


And this is a bloody discussion board where we discuss things that offend us. One of those things is this ridiculous policy.

Quote:
Comparing it to Arabs or even cults like Lev Tahor is very offensive. Women in Yiddishkeit have tremendous value, and I do not believe that not putting their pictures in magazine will change that.


I'm not one to make such comparisons but if the shoe fits..
What value is there to women in yiddishkeit? Who listens to us? Who values our own spaces? Binah, FF and Ami Living are all geared to women, and even these don't have pictures. How ridiculous is that?

Quote:
I used to be offended when frum salespeople, technicians, etc preferred speaking to my husband, or didn't look me in the eye, After a while, I grew up, and realized that it is their issue, not mine. Just get over it already!


This is a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss things that we would like to change in our world, why are you here? Honestly?
Defend the idea on its merit but why would you find it "disturbing" if people want to discuss how ridiculous they find this all to be?
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