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Why do you want women in a Magazine
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Poll

Why do you want women in magazines
For inspirational reasons (Role Models)
 20%  [ 33 ]
I believe equal for men and women
 21%  [ 34 ]
Only little girls
 15%  [ 24 ]
It's not a halacha, I don't believe in Chumros
 42%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 159


Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:06 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
Maybe, but today the vast majority of women affected by this come from Muslim, religious countries. It is not found in more secular Arab countries like Saudi Arabia.


Nor in Iran either.

According to the information I got online (which I really did NOT want to know, thank you very much), this practice predates Islam and is not only practiced in Muslim countries. It is practiced in some non-Muslim communities in Kenya, and not practiced in some Muslim countries, either.

In any case, this whole conversation is not relevant. FGM is not coming to our community, not tomorrow, not the next day, and not ever. There has not been a history of any kind of violence against women in Jewish communities. So it is not accurate to say that religious extremism always breeds violence against women - in our communities that has never happened. Thank G-d.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:18 pm
Laiya wrote:
Gingertop, do you think a magazine with serious articles would have a market in the frum world? The JO closed I assume because of financial reasons. Maybe the fluff is what people really want. And as long as that's the case, the magazines will continue to be supported by the same advertisers...


I don't know about the financial aspects of publishing. I'm complaining as a consumer and perhaps if others feel the same way, the magazines can rethink the way they do things.

A lot of people miss the JO. Could some of it be incorporated in today's flashy magazines? I think so. JO fell apart when magazines broke in and the frum world was much smaller. I think there can be some synthesis. Magazines with serious thinkers writing about real issues can fill some of the pages of existing magazines.

I understand that financial resources are not the same as in the secular world. But I wish there were serious reporters and writers creating longreads (like in the Atlantic) about current issues and historical events that affect us in the frum community.

Being frum means that we are part of a rich tradition with a rich history and I wish it weren't the case that all the amazing nonfiction I read are secular books and articles.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:30 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Nor in Iran either.

According to the information I got online (which I really did NOT want to know, thank you very much), this practice predates Islam and is not only practiced in Muslim countries. It is practiced in some non-Muslim communities in Kenya, and not practiced in some Muslim countries, either.

In any case, this whole conversation is not relevant. FGM is not coming to our community, not tomorrow, not the next day, and not ever. There has not been a history of any kind of violence against women in Jewish communities. So it is not accurate to say that religious extremism always breeds violence against women - in our communities that has never happened. Thank G-d.


What do you call the men throwing rocks and spitting at little girls on their way to school in RBS??
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:36 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
What do you call the men throwing rocks and spitting at little girls on their way to school in RBS??


And shouting והיה מחניך קדוש- with no sense of irony about how morally depraved they themselves are.

Obsession with modesty is never modest.

(And men should buy a clue- that passuk is talking about you!)
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:08 am
gingertop wrote:
I don't know about the financial aspects of publishing. I'm complaining as a consumer and perhaps if others feel the same way, the magazines can rethink the way they do things.

A lot of people miss the JO. Could some of it be incorporated in today's flashy magazines? I think so. JO fell apart when magazines broke in and the frum world was much smaller. I think there can be some synthesis. Magazines with serious thinkers writing about real issues can fill some of the pages of existing magazines.

I understand that financial resources are not the same as in the secular world. But I wish there were serious reporters and writers creating longreads (like in the Atlantic) about current issues and historical events that affect us in the frum community.

Being frum means that we are part of a rich tradition with a rich history and I wish it weren't the case that all the amazing nonfiction I read are secular books and articles.


Since the advertisers are the ones who support the magazines, they're the only ones whose opinions the magazines care about. And, as Fox pointed out, it seems readers specifically want to hear from these advertisers; it's a willing audience.

That said, maybe someone will think of something new; a profitable but different way of supporting a magazine.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:28 am
Laiya wrote:
Since the advertisers are the ones who support the magazines, they're the only ones whose opinions the magazines care about. And, as Fox pointed out, it seems readers specifically want to hear from these advertisers; it's a willing audience.

That said, maybe someone will think of something new; a profitable but different way of supporting a magazine.


I don't think the advertisers should care if there is more content in the magazines. And the advertisers want to see a large readership so we do count maybe?

There is already some very interesting content in some of the magazines. More of it will bring more readers. For example, I don't always read the Ami but I heard they had an amazing article about Recha Sternbuch so I bought it that week.
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:54 am
And this is why I love The Circle magazine. Absolutely no ads and a decent 30-40 pages a week.
But probably more expensive. $150/weekly subscription for a year on the Chanuka sale.
But the articles, stories, comics, etc are fascinating and my kids aren't being bombarded with all the stuff the "need" and "deserve this yom tov".
I'm curious. Anyone here on the Circle Staff? How is it sustainable? Can other magazines adapt the model?
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:08 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I know someone who speaks publicly. She told me that she wears a short shaitel when she speaks because she is lecturing to many types of women, and she was told that she should follow the Chassidish poskim (which are the most machmir in this area) so that every type of women should feel comfortable coming to her lectures.

Yes, a Rabannit has a responsibility as a role model for frum women. If she can't follow a magazines guidelines as per tznius - not for always, just for a picture - then what kind of Rabbanit is she? JMHO.


I don't know who it was that told her to do this, but I personally would object to being forced to adopt to minhagim that are not mine. If women don't feel comfortable hearing me if I don't dress like them, oh well. (ETA not that I'm lecturing or anything...this is theoretical of course.)

Yes, a Rabbanit has responsibility to be a role model, but she does not have to change her minhag.

DH's grandmother was a shul Rebetzin and a teacher. She was an extremely refined, tzanuah woman who had been a Talmidah at the BY in Cracow (after Sarah Schenirer passed away, so she was a student of R' Orlean, and those who ran the school up to WWII) and in her day, was sought out as a lecturer and teacher.

At one time, a certain Chassidish school in her area wanted her to come give some classes, but they stipulated that she must wear a 2nd headcovering when coming to their school. DH's grandfather adamantly turned that down, saying it was not respecting their Litvishe minhag. She did not give classes there. (as told to me by DH's aunt.)

Doing that kind of thing is what I'm opposed to. It's like saying, unless you adhere to the Chassidish standard, you are not fully tznius. What kind of message is that? Do they believe our Lakewood Rebetzins, who are the epitomy of tznius and refinement, are "not tznius enough"?

I don't go for it. And I agree with those who say it is pandering.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:13 am
Chayalle wrote:
I don't know who it was that told her to do this, but I personally would object to being forced to adopt to minhagim that are not mine. If women don't feel comfortable hearing me if I don't dress like them, oh well. (ETA not that I'm lecturing or anything...this is theoretical of course.)

Yes, a Rabbanit has responsibility to be a role model, but she does not have to change her minhag.

DH's grandmother was a shul Rebetzin and a teacher. She was an extremely refined, tzanuah woman who had been a Talmidah at the BY in Cracow (after Sarah Schenirer passed away, so she was a student of R' Orlean, and those who ran the school up to WWII) and in her day, was sought out as a lecturer and teacher.

At one time, a certain Chassidish school in her area wanted her to come give some classes, but they stipulated that she must wear a 2nd headcovering when coming to their school. DH's grandfather adamantly turned that down, saying it was not respecting their Litvishe minhag. She did not give classes there. (as told to me by DH's aunt.)

Doing that kind of thing is what I'm opposed to. It's like saying, unless you adhere to the Chassidish standard, you are not fully tznius. What kind of message is that? Do they believe our Lakewood Rebetzins, who are the epitomy of tznius and refinement, are "not tznius enough"?

I don't go for it. And I agree with those who say it is pandering.


It's not pandering and this is why:

Chassidish poskim pasken differently and this is halacha for Chassidim. It's not a chumrah. I'm not sure what wearing a second head covering is - if it's halacha or chumrah- but this is halacha.

If my friend only eats heimishe hechsherim is it pandering to her if I am careful to use only heimishe hechsherim when I send her food?
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:18 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's not pandering and this is why:

Chassidish poskim pasken differently and this is halacha for Chassidim. It's not a chumrah. I'm not sure what wearing a second head covering is - if it's halacha or chumrah- but this is halacha.

If my friend only eats heimishe hechsherim is it pandering to her if I am careful to use only heimishe hechsherim when I send her food?


It's Halacha for them to wear (maybe). It's not Halacha for me to wear that.

I can send her heimishe hechsherim, but I don't have to be makpid for myself.
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Notsobusy




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:20 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's not pandering and this is why:

Chassidish poskim pasken differently and this is halacha for Chassidim. It's not a chumrah. I'm not sure what wearing a second head covering is - if it's halacha or chumrah- but this is halacha.

If my friend only eats heimishe hechsherim is it pandering to her if I am careful to use only heimishe hechsherim when I send her food?


I don't think your example fits, it's more like if you are spending time together, and made up to each bring and eat only your own food, and you decide to only eat heimishe hechsherim because she's there. Of course you won't give her food to eat that's not her hechsher, the same way no speaker should walk into a chassidish gathering and tell them they don't need to cover their sheitel.
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:33 am
keym wrote:
And this is why I love The Circle magazine. Absolutely no ads and a decent 30-40 pages a week.
But probably more expensive. $150/weekly subscription for a year on the Chanuka sale.
But the articles, stories, comics, etc are fascinating and my kids aren't being bombarded with all the stuff the "need" and "deserve this yom tov".
I'm curious. Anyone here on the Circle Staff? How is it sustainable? Can other magazines adapt the model?


I'm pretty sure it's a subsidiary of a different magazine. Mishpacha Jr. also doesn't have ads.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:42 am
Chayalle wrote:
It's Halacha for them to wear (maybe). It's not Halacha for me to wear that.

I can send her heimishe hechsherim, but I don't have to be makpid for myself.


It's not maybe. She researched it.

This is regarding speaking to Chassidish audiences.

I think it fits because shes speaking (And being a role model by definition) to these audiences.

For those that think she's pandering - how do you see this as pandering but having no pictures of women at all is NOT pandering???? It's just that you're used to something so you're defending it. Which is honestly, really funny.


Last edited by Mommyg8 on Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:43 am
Let's just call it a business decision. Now we're all good, right?
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keym




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:48 am
Laiya wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's a subsidiary of a different magazine. Mishpacha Jr. also doesn't have ads.


It's affiliated with the Voice of Lakewood. But you buy it separately, and the Voice is free.
It's not like you could just buy the Mishpacha Jr and not buy the Mishpacha- they get sold together.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:01 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
So now you've decided which type of argument is the "funniest"? Is this a joke to you? Keep it up and you'll turn every discussion into some kind of comedy club, and from there, it'll go to making movies, and pretty soon we'll be traveling around the world filming and abandon our families chas v'shalom!


Boy that escalated quickly LOL! LOL
Traveling around the world filming movies sounds AMAZING to me, not much of a deterrent I'm afraid!
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Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:14 am
keym wrote:
It's affiliated with the Voice of Lakewood. But you buy it separately, and the Voice is free.
It's not like you could just buy the Mishpacha Jr and not buy the Mishpacha- they get sold together.


If it's affiliated with the Voice, to me that implies financial support. And, you mentioned that subscription rates are higher. It's possible to support a magazine based on subscription fees alone, but then those fees are extremely high, usually higher than most people are willing to pay unless it's a very specific niche.

I'm also curious if The Circle has any of the same editorial and writing staff as the Voice. Who's actually producing the magazine?
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macg5




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:57 pm
I think everything has been covered but still worth posting this resource of Talking points. Just in case you ever need to explain it to someone again.

https://www.chochmatnashim.org.....Points.pdf

From: https://www.chochmatnashim.org/resources/
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marina




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:06 pm
Quote:
The mindless, headlong march into unbridled consumerism is ultimately more dangerous than the lack of women's pictures.


Nah. Consumerism has been around since there were consumers. But erasing women's images from print is pretty new and reflects a dangerous shift.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:17 pm
keym wrote:
And this is why I love The Circle magazine. Absolutely no ads and a decent 30-40 pages a week.
But probably more expensive. $150/weekly subscription for a year on the Chanuka sale.
But the articles, stories, comics, etc are fascinating and my kids aren't being bombarded with all the stuff the "need" and "deserve this yom tov".
I'm curious. Anyone here on the Circle Staff? How is it sustainable? Can other magazines adapt the model?


I write for the Circle, but I don't know anything about the financials/circulation aspects. It is more expensive because of the lack of ads, but worth it IMO (which doesn't really count for much because I get a free subscription LOL )

The editorial staff does not overlap with the Voice (though it did for a short time) and there is writer overlap, but they are separate entities. I don't believe it is supported by the Voice, but I'm not sure.
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