Why do you want women in a Magazine

SixOfWands

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:49 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

ITS NOT A CHUMRA FULL STOP

ITS A BUSINESS DECISION THAT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH JUDAISM

No. Its a business decision based on others' interpretation of Judaism.

Certain people have concluded that any image of a woman is inherently problematic, and the magazines have kowtowed to them.

And its writing women out of history. Its saying that they weren't at the table, when they were. Not depicting them on the street and in businesses and at the dinner table and everywhere they are. And in 50 years or 100 years, people will believe that's how things were.

Its demeaning women. No matter what you accomplish, we cannot show you.

And it is clearly z3xualizing them, saying that no matter how modest or covered, no matter how young or old, they cannot -- simply by dint of being female -- be sufficiently tzniut.

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:50 am

watergirl wrote:

And I'll add (so my previous question does not get ignored because of this other point - this was never about printing ads with photographs of models in long, glossy sheitels or clothing or whatever. This is about printing a photo of a rebbitzen in her yartzeit article. This is about printing a head-shot of an author or an article - should she want it to be printed. For those who say "I dont want my photo printed" - fab! No one is forcing anyone to have pictures of themselves printed! But if someone wants - she should have the choice.

This exactly. I love the way you put it and agree with this 100%.

keym

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:54 am

Because my 6 year old daughter wants to be able to show off her clicks sefer torah that she made, and not have her brother showing it off.
Every year in the summer in Lakewood publications, they have dozens of pictures of boys classes at their siddur and chumash party. Literally a lineup of 25 boys holding their chumash, wearing a crown and sash or whatever.
And my girls comment that their receiving their siddur is not important. The girls siddur parties- all the girls are wearing long sleeves, long skirts, tights, and the same crown/sash thing. Why can't they publish a group picture?

Mommyg8

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:55 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I believe in: "live and let live!" If they are happy, why does it bother you?
Dont go around changing the world but yourself!

There was a very interesting article in a chabad newsletter once, will see if I can find it.

It bothers me because I think this policy causes women to be disrespected IRL. Or maybe it's the other way around...

Unlike others, I don't think this is a slippery slope that will turn frum men into the Taliban, for various reasons. But the disrespect for women is there.

And I'm part of the community that only reads Yated, Hamodia, even Mishpacha is controversial.

amother

Gray

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:00 am

keym wrote:

This this this.

This is the message.

What would Sarah Schenirer say?

watergirl

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:04 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ive read mishpacha magazine once, when a friend left it at my house. Im not sure what articles or columnists there are, but I found none of the articles to my taste of what I read. I dont know anyone that I know who reads the magazine. I also know that mishpacha is not sold in my area, at all. Its a dati leumi/modern orthodox area. Im going to disagree with you watergirl and say that no, they do not cater to all orthodoxy. Many people will not buy the magazine. I found it very flowery or fluffy, personally.

Ok, I stand corrected then.

We have a subscription to Mishpacha (after much debate and after talking about it to one of the people who is heading this "#frumwomenhavefaces movement. I'm not going to get into the whole thing here.). Some weeks are better than others and some weeks nothing interests me. Some weeks, the whole magazine is really good.

What I meant was, they are careful to feature representatives from different walks of frum life each week. There are features about men/women who are not frum at all and show men who are not even wearing a kippah in their photo. There are features of chassidim, chilonim, tzionim, kiruv workers, BTs, geirim, etc. I especially enjoy the "Ari and Ari" articles about random communities around the world who have a Jewish mesorah but are so removed from the rest of the world. Different strokes for different folks.

The point of my comment, which I suppose got lost, was that out of the three popular English publications, Mishpacha makes sure to include the biggest variety of hashkafic affiliation. I cant think of a more clear way to make my point, so I hope the point comes across.

watergirl

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:06 am

keym wrote:

YES! My son made a comment about a year ago that pictures of girls faces are not tznius and when asked why, he said because of this policy that is written in the Mishpacha Jr. You better believe I wrote them an email after this! And then I showed him all of the pictures of women in the Rebbitzen Kanievsky book, All For the Boss, Rebbitzen Machlis book, and the Rav Shteinman book...

naturalmom5

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:07 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I do not know the answer to your question, but I will say that not everything needs to be endorsed. Sometimes you can see a cause and say "oh, wow, this makes so much sense. I want to be a part of it".
You can go onto their site and ask them.

Why is no one bothered by the fact that ImaMother has no rabbinical endorsements
Judging by some threads in the intimacy forum, maybe we should

naturalmom5

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:10 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I believe I said the exact thing as you
You are just more eloquent

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:17 am

It's not just magazines.

I grew up on a certain Hagaddah Shel Pesach that had these black and white drawings of both girls and boys at various points.

A few years ago my husband decided it was time for new Hagaddas. He brought home these gorgeous, glossy hagaddas BUT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE WOMEN OR GIRL in them. The Seder picture has a Totty and a Zeidy and a whole bunch of boys crowded around. Guess the women and girls were tired and all went to sleep, huh? The drawings of the Makos....all men. Yetzias Mitzrayim - all men. Gorgeous painting-like drawings, but the women were totally cut out.

DH totally did not realize when he looked at it and bought it. Clueless. Just saw the pretty pictures and thought we would like it.

So we've been cut out of history already.

It bothers me. It's ridiculous, we can't even draw little girls anymore, never mind pictures ?!

gingertop

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:26 am

Chayalle wrote:

My son has a megillas esther without drawings of Esther! There are some side profiles but you don't see her face.
It was never like this. When I grew up, we had the parsha coloring books that was illustrated by a lady in Tosh and had endorsement of rabbanim from her community. Today an illustration of Esther (who plays a non-trivial part in megillas esther!) is not tzanua enough for a little boy.

It's beyond pathetic. Who thinks that an illustration (!) of a tzadeikes (!) cannot be seen by a little boy (! ) without negative repercussions?

Last edited by gingertop on Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total

keym

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:26 am

watergirl wrote:

And you know, for some reason, showing those books made it WORSE. My kids comments were that the only way a girl gets a picture is if she makes herself into this amazing woman that only a few of a generation can attain.
Our boys get pictured, simply by a rite of passage- chumash party, click sefer torah etc. But a girl only deserves a picture if she becomes amazing.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:42 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Oh, you hit the nail on the head. Give it another few generations and they will use these pictures as 'proof of our mesorah'. That women didn't walk out on streets, didn't sit with the men and boys at the shabbos table, etc, were completely segregated from society & stayed hidden away. The extremists and revisionists will come running with these photos, and what will be able to say then?

Extremism doesn't start overnight. And just look at the continuing demands from school and society, it all keeps moving in that direction. And Lev Tahor didn't develop overnight either, they just moved quite faster than everyone else. If we continue to have these absurd rationalizations instead of putting a stop to these actions, what options will our grandchildren have left available to them?

IrenaFr

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:46 am

yes, it’s not just the magazines. Before some Jewish holiday I wanted to learn some songs with my DD3. I found beautifully animated song on YouTube and we watched . There was a family around a table with no mother ! DD3 asked -why they don’t have a mother , are they orphans? “ She was very disturbed while watching. And it was an animation !
Also while learning about Sarah and Abraham, she learned that Sarah was beautiful. She wanted to see her in illustrated children Torah . I didn’t notice when buying but in one of the books there were only men , women were shown with their backs Sad

Good that we have another children Torah (Russian edition) and there was Sarah Smile

Laiya

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:53 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Laiya. Maybe you missed the whole Yisrael Besser debate of a year or so ago. He kept referring to "our precious mesorah" and that they were following daas Torah and our gedolim as the rationale behind the policy. (Only he never named any actual gedolim )

Exactly he never named them, thanks for reminding me about that. He likes to have it both ways. Also he likes to leave it vague as to whether he's stating his personal opinion or speaking on behalf of the magazine with their authorization. I doubt there is actual daas Torah whose policy they are following.

Angel

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:40 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

I hope you are joking
Anyone who would need to do that should take time away from reading the mag . For the sake of her kids she should use her time to get therapy as to why she feels the need to do that

That's quite quick for sending someone to therapy.
Hope you dont to that IRL!