What if it’s all a test

polka dots

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 6:25 pm

I’m a pro vaccine as it comes. This topic gets me boiling inside. Especially since some of the people I know personally who don’t vaccine also irk me in other areas. We don’t see eye to eye on many levels. So whenever there is a vaccine debate I’ll always be the one who gets all heated up about it.
Yesterday I was having a moment where I thought “what if it’s all a test?” What if Hashem is ready to send mashiach and he is giving us one final test to see if sinas Chinum is eradicated from our hearts. It all started from sinas chinum, maybe this is the tikun we need to make it all better? What if this is a test where there is a situation where everyone is heavily invested as it is close to home in everyone’s heart, a test that has potential to turn Jew against Jew and Hashem is watching how we will handle this. Whatever is going on up there in heaven, I don’t know. But I do know that I need to step back from all the hate and truly love and respect each and every Jew.
I am vaccinating to do my hishtadlis, no one else’s decisions can change what Hashem has planned should happen to me and my family.
I also read a study (for those that believe in scientific studies) that the more we argue with anti vaxxers, the stronger they will stick to their believe.
So I’m stepping out of the “he said she said game”, I’m doing my hishtadlus, and leaving my health up to Hashem.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:13 pm

Thank you for posting. People have to realize that the level of hate they feel is unwarranted. People who have not been personally affected by all this are boiling with rage. Why??? Do you get this worked up about other people's Choices that dont affect you?
There are children who have been kicked out of school, camp, family get togethers, parties...pretty much excluded from society. The damage that has done is so incredible and it's outrageous. The people who are the most upset have been possibly only mildly inconvenienced. (Only a very small number of people have been seriously inconvenienced) It's really sinas chinam. I vaccinate also, but I see people around me suffering from the emotional abuse of the collective frum community.

polka dots

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:19 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

excluding out of hate is not right. But if parent chose not to vax and send kid to school and then was sent home, I think it’s on the parent.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:20 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Any family with an infant in an outbreak area is absolutely affected. Did you see those pictures circulating of the cute 11 month old who got the measles and was in the hospital? Heartbreaking. This is why people are so upset.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:21 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

You see people suffering the consequences of their own actions. I'm good with that, as is the Perek - Yegiah kapechu ki soichel.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:21 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Protecting oneself is not an act of hatred. Camps have to account for liability. Why is that considered emotional abuse? Why is not being able to bring a baby out in public considered mild inconvenience? Is serious inconvenience incurred when someone actually catches measles and has a really rough time?

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:25 pm

polka dots wrote:

THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUTRAGE AND HATE. I wish people would stop conflating the two. I can love my fellow neighbor and still be outraged at her behavior. It's not a conflict at all.

It's important for the outrage to be heard and its important to direct it at those who are creating the need for the outrage. If they feel bad about, that's the point. The outrage is there to try to stop the behavior, not to worry about how the wrongdoers FEEL about it.

polka dots

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:37 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

I agree
Just speaking for myself, this topic brought about HATRED in my heart for others and I want to try to work on myself to be able to separate the two.

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:39 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

Exactly!!!
If someone wants to overspend on a blowout bas mitzvah party, I may not approve of the choice but it can't physically harm anyone.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:40 pm

I actually wanted to write about this a while ago but then decided there’s to many vaccine threads.
I’m a pro Vaxxer that’s because I trust Hashem listen to my Rav and I was told to give vaccines. I also did my own research and to me it’s clear that it’s the safest way to go BUT there is no way of absolutely knowing the truth. There just isn’t. This is with everything in life. I listen to my Rav and I’m doing my hishdadlus (giving vaccines) and I am sure HaShem will take care of me. If Chas vesholom anything ever happens along the line I will know I did what’s right and this was supposed to happen either way. Now let’s say we ARE right and they are wrong do you really think HaShem wants us to act the way some of us are acting? Name calling isn’t so simple, the Torah NEVER allows that. If you have a Nieghbor that unfortunately not frum any longer and it sincerely bothers you because how dare she go against all Gedolim and why is she so selfish and not thinking about my kids. Why is she exposing my children to things they shouldn’t be exposed to at this age and she doesn’t even feel bad about it. So you’ll go out and yell her? Call her names say you have no brains etc...no you won’t. You will feel bad hope and maybe daven that she finds the truth quick and that you kids should not be affected. Now I know the difference is that she probably knows that she’s doing something wrong and what bothers you is that the anti vaxxers don’t . That comes back that EITHER WAY HaShem does NOT want us to be rude to each other NO MATTER what. And yes you feel like they are affecting your child but where’s the Torah now? Didn’t you say your giving vaccines doing your hishtadlus listening to all gedolim because that what hashem wants from us? So why you so worried?! If anything is supposed to happen it will happen weather your neighbor vaccinated or not it will happen if HaShem wants it to. The gedolim do not want us to be nasty to each other. This goes for both parties.
And let me clarify telling the unvaccinated children that they cannot come to school is not what I’m talking about. We need to continue to do our hishtadlus and protect ourselves but name calling and knocking down others is not our hishtadlus and HaShem does not want that.
I hope at least one person will understand what I’m saying.

polka dots

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 7:47 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

I actually wanted to write about this a while ago but then decided there’s to many vaccine threads.
I’m a pro Vaxxer that’s because I trust the dr I listened to my Rav and I was told to give vaccines. I also did my own research and to me it’s clear that it’s the safest way to go BUT there is no way of absolutely knowing the truth. There just isn’t. This is with everything in life. I listen to my Rav and I’m doing my hishdadlus (giving vaccines) and I am sure HaShem will take care of me. If Chas vesholom anything ever happens along the line I will know I did what’s right and this was supposed to happen either way. Now let’s say we ARE right and they are wrong do you really think HaShem wants us to act the way some of us are acting? Name calling isn’t so simple, the Torah NEVER allows that. If you have a Nieghbor that unfortunately not frum any longer and it sincerely bothers you because how dare she go against all Gedolim and why is she so selfish and not thinking about my kids. Why is she exposing my children to things they shouldn’t be exposed to at this age and she doesn’t even feel bad about it. So you’ll go out and yell her? Call her names say you have no brains etc...no you won’t. You will feel bad hope and maybe daven that she finds the truth quick and that you kids should not be affected. Now I know the difference is that she probably knows that she’s doing something wrong and what bothers you is that the anti vaxxers don’t . That comes back that EITHER WAY HaShem does NOT want us to be rude to each other NO MATTER what. And yes you feel like they are affecting your child but where’s the Torah now? Didn’t you say your giving vaccines doing your hishtadlus listening to all gedolim because that what hashem wants from us? So why you so worried?! If anything is supposed to happen it will happen weather your neighbor vaccinated or not it will happen if HaShem wants it to. The gedolim do not want us to be nasty to each other. This goes for both parties.
And let me clarify telling the unvaccinated children that they cannot come to school is not what I’m talking about. We need to continue to do our hishtadlus and protect ourselves but name calling and knocking down others is not our hishtadlus and HaShem does not want that.
I hope at least one person will understand what I’m saying.

amother

Oak

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 11:15 pm

Yitamu Hachata'im velo Hachotim (the sins should be wiped out, not the sinners).

I wonder, are the actual numbers of vaccine uptake even supportive of this level of hysteria?

May all of us remain healthy, and make ALL of our decisions according to Torah — not just looking to Torah for justification after the fact. May we quote Torah for our vaccine decisions, as well as for our general efforts in Venishmartem, and of course, not forget about the halachos about treating others we perceive as detrimental to society.