How to find your zivug when shadchonim are dishonest

amother

Lime

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:18 am

Someone above said to ask the references specific questions.
Can you suggest some specific questions that worked for you.
I once asked someone if there was sickness in the young man's family. I later found out that all of the women's children (whom I called as a reference) had medical issues. I felt horrible for having asked such a question to such a person. Of course it was not intentional, but I really hurt the woman whom I called.

yksraya

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 9:54 am

Shadchanim do have a database with info. When they try to match a potential shiduch, they take boy A with his maalos and chisronos and girl D that has maalos and chisronos. They match it based on what they think will work.

What happens is that the parents of either the girl, or the boy, or both are not always realistic as to their kids chisoron and the shadchan can not exactly point the chisoron out as it can offend the parents. So they just redt the shiduch and leave it up to the parents to do their research and decide if it's for them.

Also, when shadchanim (or whoever made the database) ask around on a boy/girl, they can sometimes get the wrong info. Lets say if someone confuses the girl with a different girl with same or similar name. Or if a girl gives wrong info based on her assumption of the classmate she gives info on. Or if someone purposely gives wrong info on someone she is jealous of or had a fight with etc.

dankbar

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:02 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am wondering if I take it on myself to put together information about young men and women in the community from neighbours of the family, from sisters/brothers, members of the shul and other means and then compile a large database with all this information and then people can ring me to find out true information. This database would obviously be totally confidential.

There is already a database with information available but that is probably provided by shadchonim so I am not sure if that information can be relied on.

This process would be a lot of work. Do you think this would be a service to the community?

No. Because people wont give you true info for such purposes, if they dont know personally the person asking the info or the the person its meant for.

Everything is relevant. For every person something else is a maaleh. Also answers are according to prospect lets say if you are asked if person is modern.....for the ultra frum prospect....he might be considered modern but for the ultra modern he might be considered ultra frum etc....

amother

Brown

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:32 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

“Are you aware of any physical or emotional issues” is what I typically ask. You may hurt people it’s very difficult but in shidduchim you need to be selfish.
I’ve asked if the family vax to a staunch anti vaxer. There have been many scenarios.
But it’s important to hear what’s not said.
An example being asking about the parents & say everyone tells you “ mom is amazing sweet...,I don’t know the father” it’s your clue to probe more. No one is perfect, no ones family is perfect. There are things you can live with & someone else cannot.
Ultimately Hashem makes shidduchim

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:34 am

OP, two questions who are helpful ask when doing research:
1. in the end of conversation, ask them if there is anything that you have not asked them but you should have asked them. Tell them this is critical.
2. Also ask if they would set up their own child for the specific prospect. If they say no, ask them why.
Make sure to tell them that is there is any information that they would like to add, they should feel free to do so.

yksraya

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:36 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

I don't think "I don't know the father" is a clue. Sometimes you really just know the mother from grocery or pta etc but you have no clue about the father. It just means ask someone who knows the family better.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:38 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

This!

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:42 am

You cant even trust people you know with info. We had a shidduch redt for my son who all of our family friends who knew both sides told us go for it-great catch! When we called back shadchan, the other side had a change of heart! We were devastated! A while later my son found out that girl has mental issues!
We were so thankful to Hashem that we got spared! When we called back our friends some told us they didnt know.....some did more probing when confronted & found out the truth....one told us they would reveal once its more shayich.....

I was thinking back to convo I had with one teacher, when I asked if she was absent a lot to find out of any medical issues.....she just told me that shes not the one taking care of attendance bla bla

amother

Seashell

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:50 am

[quote="amother [ Mistyrose ]"We were so thankful to Hashem that we got spared! When we called back our friends some told us they didnt know.....some did more probing when confronted & found out the truth....one told us they would reveal once its more shayich.....

I was thinking back to convo I had with one teacher, when I asked if she was absent a lot to find out of any medical issues.....she just told me that shes not the one taking care of attendance bla bla[/quote]

I would be furious. This is so bad.

amother

Purple

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:58 am

The truth is many ppl do a lot of investigating. But, some families have secrets that will never be found out bec noone knows. Or, references are dishonest...or....or...

And, even if you find out everything, nobody but hashem will know if the man or woman has a change of heart later on, and decides to divorce bec. .....two of my relatives got divorced bec the other spouse was not committed and decided they want someone better"".

Op, sorry, but you cant and will not find out everything. You do your hishtadlus like some great ideas posted here about investigating....and then the rest is up to hashem.

Clearly, hashem didnt want ppl to find out certain things until after. These ppl did much more investigating than I ever did. We dont understand hashems ways. Some ppl here posted their dh were abusive....im sure they did a lot of investigating but it was all covered until marriage. Hashem for some reason, put them in that situation. And, forget about dishonest shadchanim, my mil lied about my dh to the shadchanim about a lot of things. She is hiding a lot for my bils bec. She wants them married, but if she finds out something about the girl...shes disgusted and "forgets" about her sons' issues. Sorry, a lot of ppl are dishonest.

Hatzlacha!!

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:58 am

You have to ask specifics:
Is there any illness in the family?
Is she a healthy person?
Is her family warm positive people?
What is their house like?
What is the girls personality ?
Is she smart/outgoing/sensitive/thoughtful - ask what matters your son
How does she treat others?
What does she do in her free time?
What is your overall impression of her?
What is she doing now? (Even if you know you can see how well they know her).
Best middah
Attitude toward money
Is she into fashion
How much time does she take on makeup/clothing?
Videos/movies/internet/tv/smartphone - what matters to you
Is she s messy or neat person. Helps at home?
Is family important?
How does she deal with frustration?
Does he drink or smoke?
Are the family big drinkers?
How do you imagine her in a few years?
What type of books or music does she enjoy?
Does she have hobbies? What type?
Does she have a rav?
Is she punctual?
What type of roommate?
Is she a quiet person?
What is his davening like?
What type of friend is she?
Describe relationship with family?
Is she the type to stay home or work?
Are there genetic diseases?
Are the parents machsiv Torah?
What are families living standards compared to the community?
How does she dress? (For tzinius idea)
What are her values?
What is her relationship with her parents?
What is her parents Shabbos table like?
Is she an honest person? Can you rely on her? Is she trustworthy? Tells the truth?

When asking personality you can ask for 1-10 scale to get an idea rather then just she is outgoing, sensitive, warm, etc.

Obviously some questions are for friends, some for rav, and some for family friends.

What matters to you. Make a list and base the questions off of that.