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dankbar
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 Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:28 pm
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Lawngreen you can go work for the CIA lol
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IrenaFr
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:41 pm
| amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote: | You have to ask specifics:
Is there any illness in the family?
Is she a healthy person?
Is her family warm positive people?
What is their house like?
What is the girls personality ?
Is she smart/outgoing/sensitive/thoughtful - ask what matters your son
How does she treat others?
What does she do in her free time?
What is your overall impression of her?
What is she doing now? (Even if you know you can see how well they know her).
Best middah
Attitude toward money
Is she into fashion
How much time does she take on makeup/clothing?
Videos/movies/internet/tv/smartphone - what matters to you
Is she s messy or neat person. Helps at home?
Is family important?
How does she deal with frustration?
Does he drink or smoke?
Are the family big drinkers?
How do you imagine her in a few years?
What type of books or music does she enjoy?
Does she have hobbies? What type?
Does she have a rav?
Is she punctual?
What type of roommate?
Is she a quiet person?
What is his davening like?
What type of friend is she?
Describe relationship with family?
Is she the type to stay home or work?
Are there genetic diseases?
Are the parents machsiv Torah?
What are families living standards compared to the community?
How does she dress? (For tzinius idea)
What are her values?
What is her relationship with her parents?
What is her parents Shabbos table like?
Is she an honest person? Can you rely on her? Is she trustworthy? Tells the truth?
When asking personality you can ask for 1-10 scale to get an idea rather then just she is outgoing, sensitive, warm, etc.
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If my husband would go by this list he would never married me . First , Nobody could answer those questions about me . And nobody that I know would be married. Because nobody is perfect. And then people here complain about “crisis in shidduchim”
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ra_mom
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:46 pm
| IrenaFr wrote: |
If my husband would go by this list he would never married me . First , Nobody could answer those questions about me . And nobody that I know would be married. Because nobody is perfect. And then people here complain about “crisis in shidduchim” |
It's not about finding the perfect answers. It's the entire picture of the potential spouse (the whole package) and what works for the person searching for their soulmate. It's about going into a shidduch with your eyes open.
Last edited by ra_mom on Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yerushamama
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:46 pm
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Most people aren't looking for perfection. We are looking for the best possible match.
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amother
Salmon
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 12:49 pm
If the couple had genuine chemistry and likes each other, they will be willing to put up with some of those concerns. For example whether he/she is neat or messy, quiet personality vs outgoing, etc.
But you won't know that until they meet and get to know each other. The best match is when there is genuine liking and respect, not most of the things on that list.
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amother
Wheat
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 1:05 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | In our circles somebody looking to get married uses a shadchan. The problem is Shadchonim can be dishonest, leave out vital information or tell blatant lies. We have personal experience of this in the family. This leads to people wanting to find their shiduch without using a shadchan.
How can someone who wants to get married get honest up to date information about a perspective shiduch? |
Tell yourself: it is ok if they are dishonest. They are just a tool to use.
(Except be a makir tova and thank them and maybe send them some money if they worked hard, even if a suggestion falls through. Upon completion of a shidduch, pay them as if it is your dream dress/house/sheitel/you know what I mean)
Family members like cousins, brothers, sisters could help you navigate the suggestions.
Even if they are not close to you, they are the ones that do NOT want to see your child suffer a bad marriage.
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IrenaFr
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 1:05 pm
| amother [ Salmon ] wrote: | If the couple had genuine chemistry and likes each other, they will be willing to put up with some of those concerns. For example whether he/she is neat or messy, quiet personality vs outgoing, etc.
But you won't know that until they meet and get to know each other. The best match is when there is genuine liking and respect, not most of the things on that list. |
That’s why I also think that people should know each other more, as many dates as possible .
Also people are very subjective and can’t answer objectively for half a question in that list.
Also some people think that they want something a partner but in an actual person it could be different.
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amother
Blush
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 2:36 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | How do you find a car when dealers are dishonest??
Sechel and mazel |
Unfortunately, Torah does not allow us to take dates out on "test drives". 
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singleagain
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 2:39 pm
| amother [ Blush ] wrote: | | Unfortunately, Torah does not allow us to take dates out on "test drives". |
I thought dating was the test drive?
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overworked
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 3:50 pm
im a shadchan that doesn't know how to lie  and I find it much harder in pulling thru a shidduch, but im proud of it. I dont want to carry chasvasholem a guilty feeling for life that I fouled someone
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amother
Pearl
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 4:49 pm
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The shadchan is here to give you a suggestion, not for information!! You take her idea or resume and you start calling and asking around! Then they meet and you can still keep asking or clarifying things that come up
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amother
Lawngreen
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Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:28 pm
You aren’t meant to ask all questions. But pick what is important to you. Like some families really care about drinking and some could care less. Some want a boy who can overlook A mess and some want a boy who makes his bed daily.
And there is no right answer - just the truth. A friend of mine was once called for info and they asked is the girl smart. The girl really wasn’t smart but the friend tried to make her sound smart. The mother was disappointed and said my son wasn’t really looking for that and that they thought she wasn’t really brainy. (So while references stretch the truth also you can still get a good idea )
Of course no one can answer all these question. 5 for a rav, 5 for a seminary roommate , 5 for a single friend, 5 for a family friend,5 for a neighbor and it should give a basic picture. A rav won’t know her misdos - the roommate will. Her roommate may not know if their machshiv torah or have a healthy home but rav would.
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tf
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Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:22 pm
| Rappel wrote: | You can't.
That's why it's important for a couple to use their intelligence, their gut, and to date for a while before deciding that this is their life partner. |
With lots of dates you’re not guaranteed either
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amother
Lawngreen
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Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:27 pm
| tf wrote: | | With lots of dates you’re not guaranteed either |
People live together and still get divorced...
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tf
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Mon, Jun 24 2019, 11:31 pm
| amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote: | | People live together and still get divorced... |
Exactly! There’s no guarantee for anything.
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IrenaFr
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Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:06 am
| tf wrote: | | With lots of dates you’re not guaranteed either |
Before I came to the frum forums I was on secular forums for many years. And I have never seen so many cases when people get married and then - surprise , DH has mental issues. I am in shock how often I read about it on the frum women forums . So while secular people divorce a lot, at least they don’t have those kind of surprises . And this is most terrible situation I think. Because frum couples usually don’t use BC so the children are suffering too.
Mental issues can’t be hidden for too long when dating.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jun 25 2019, 3:12 pm
IrenaFr,
I do not believe that frum people have more surprises that Dh has mental health issues then society at large.
Frum couples do use BC but a lot of them get approval from their Rav first.
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IrenaFr
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Tue, Jun 25 2019, 3:40 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | IrenaFr,
I do not believe that frum people have more surprises that Dh has mental health issues then society at large.
Frum couples do use BC but a lot of them get approval from their Rav first. |
When people date a lot before the wedding, they for sure have less surprises. I remember only two stories on secular forums how one wife discovered that her husband has schizophrenia after many years because he had children with other women , voices were telling him to have as many children as possible . And one other case a few years later , he was borderline at first . But on frum group facebook and here - so many cases 
It was a shock for me , really. And I read many years anonymous forums of secular women with lots of other problems-cheating and drinking mostly, gambling , not wanting children, not helping , impotence, not working etc . But not this one .
And I am taking about BC right after the wedding. I don’t think it’s the norm already in majority of frum communities.
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IrenaFr
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Tue, Jun 25 2019, 3:51 pm
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I have a friend who got married to mild Asperger with rage issues. They didn’t live together and she was a virgin before the wedding night . While they were dating he showed all those problems but she decided to get married anyway . But she knew at least what she is getting into . She is from abusive family so for her it was ok . No surprises.
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Wed, Jun 26 2019, 3:45 am
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Going out with the guy for a couple months in different setting will help you see what he's like even without a shadchan. Everyone is nice, sweet, good looking, a good learner, has fine middos etc until you meet them and get to know them.
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