Home

Quote from Fox about frum magazines
1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:34 pm
Quote:
Of all the potential problems with these magazines, their desire to avoid the photo wars is the least concerning.

Basically, these magazines are the Playboy of the frum world. Not in the sense of titillating adolescent boys, but in the sense of promoting an aspirational lifestyle.

Who was Hugh Hefner's core audience? Young men who'd served in WWII and who were now beginning to enjoy the fruits of the booming post-War economy. Many had relocated from rural and semi-rural towns to urban and suburban areas. They were looking for guidance about how to be sophisticated -- what music to listen to; what to read; what to discuss or not discuss; how to behave at a fancy restaurant. This was the real meat of Playboy -- along with pictures of naked ladies.

The frum magazines are serving the same role for an increasingly affluent frum audience. What kinds of foods are "in" for Shabbos and holidays? How do with-it hostesses set the table? Who are the up-and-coming Orthodox leaders in business, government, and science? What are the social problems we should care about, and which are we prompted to ignore?

I am not crazy about the no-women policy, but I understand how it developed. Everyone wants pictures of rebbetzins and other notable women. But then we start arguing what constitutes a "notable woman." And then the advertisers want to include women, and the publisher finds itself fighting repeated battles over what constitutes a appropriate photo.

Many secular magazines and newspapers -- most notably The New Yorker -- banned advertisements for underwear. Not because they thought their readers would be led astray by grainy black & white photos of Cross-Your-Heart brassieres, but because they were sick of constantly arbitrating each individual case.

I suspect that frum publishers have the same dilemma. There is absolutely no benefit to them to have to engage in constant monitoring, and they will invariably make someone angry. Easier to make everyone a little angry than make a small group extremely angry.

Really, though, publishing or not publishing women's photos in aspirational frum magazines is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You can argue that the deck chairs really should be arranged on way or another -- and you may be correct. But that won't prevent the ship from sinking.


This comment, from the women in magazines thread, deserves a thread of its own.

Do you read Mishpacha and look up to the rich people featured and does that become something you want?
Back to top

amother




Bronze


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:44 pm
No. I enjoy the editorials and self reflection type essays. I find many of the interviews interesting. I like some of the fiction. But I skim over the stuff you are describing. Ok, I might've clipped a few recipes here and there, butI'm more susceptible to ads I see online. I have never once contemplated setting a table or making a centerpiece etc. as featured in a mag.And no, I don't admire people just because they are rich and famous. If anything those articles make me roll my eyes a bit.
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:47 pm
I'd assume that the ads are effective or advertisers wouldn't be spending all that money running them.
Back to top

camp




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:49 pm
As always, I agree with every word fox said.
She’s literally a genius.
Back to top

Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:58 pm
Well I roll my eyes at the tablescapes that’s for sure. Do people really do all that for a YT meal or picnic?
Back to top

Fox




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:03 am
I think the nature of these things is more insidious. Few of us read a magazine and think, "Omg! My Shabbos table doesn't have a theme!"

Rather, it slips in little by little. Our expectations -- not just of others but also of ourselves -- get raised in tiny increments. The message is drilled in week after week that this is how frum Jews live -- and should aspire to live. I'm not advocating for extreme frugality, but I do think we need to realize how much these subliminal messages affect us.

The financial pressure on our husbands is overwhelming, and it affects shidduchim -- boys delay marriage because they're afraid of the financial issues. It fosters depression and anxiety. It creates expectations that only the highest earners can possibly hope to achieve -- and brands those who don't measure up as failures.

If we love our husbands and sons as much as we say, we need to think about what this is doing to them -- and what it's doing to us.
Back to top

amother




Gray


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:04 am
This is the exact reason we do not bring those magazines into our home. I don't want to be exposed to the consumerism and food objectification. It's not my value system.
ETA:
In reference to your point above, that is exactly why I dont read these mags. Weekly exposure to these ads definitely had an impact on my family, especially the teen
girls.
I am not of the opinion that the good outweighs the bad. I find the politics, tone and message of the articles appeal to a certain type of crowd that we have been slowly retreating from over the past decade or so. Frankly, I hope ot effects my shidduchim that I'm "out of touch."
Back to top

crust




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:45 am
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
This is the exact reason we do not bring those magazines into our home. I don't want to be exposed to the consumerism and food objectification. It's not my value system.
ETA:
In reference to your point above, that is exactly why I dont read these mags. Weekly exposure to these ads definitely had an impact on my family, especially the teen
girls.
I am not of the opinion that the good outweighs the bad. I find the politics, tone and message of the articles appeal to a certain type of crowd that we have been slowly retreating from over the past decade or so. Frankly, I hope ot effects my shidduchim that I'm "out of touch."


Talking about shidduchim I always wonder.

How will people know if I do or don't have these mags or that we do XYZ because I gave a lot of thought to it and decided that its not according to my hashkafa etc.?

It's not like I'm outspoken about things. I just go about my merry way.
How would someone even know? Ykwim?
Back to top

mirror




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:49 am
I couldn't agree more. The advertisements for Pesach hotels irritate me.
Back to top

amother




Forestgreen


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:51 am
That's what is so warped. The lifestyle being promoted is immodest in the extreme, but the magazines act as if the problem is women. Interview some intelligent women about issues of substance, and show their pictures.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:58 am
amother [ Gray ] wrote:
This is the exact reason we do not bring those magazines into our home. I don't want to be exposed to the consumerism and food objectification. It's not my value system.
ETA:
In reference to your point above, that is exactly why I dont read these mags. Weekly exposure to these ads definitely had an impact on my family, especially the teen
girls.
I am not of the opinion that the good outweighs the bad. I find the politics, tone and message of the articles appeal to a certain type of crowd that we have been slowly retreating from over the past decade or so. Frankly, I hope ot effects my shidduchim that I'm "out of touch."

LOL. My in-laws subscribe to this magazine and I have leafed through it on a Shabbat or two while visiting them. I agree that it is an unsuitable publication for my family for the reasons you stated (in addition to the fact that I find their policies about women's photos to be insulting). Plus I do not find the writing to be simulating at all. It's just not for us.
Back to top

gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:01 am
I enjoy gashmius as much as the next person. I like using the magazines as a launching pad for my ideas for setting up yt and shabbos tables. I could afford it and I like nice things.

What I can't stand- in the actual magazines and the ads- is how seriously they take themselves. Creativity should be a fun extra in life. Not a "OMG, you must try this recipe!" and "our dedication to our cows +300 nauseating words about how obsessed we are with our 80$ a cut beef blah blah..."

And don't get me started on when pessukim are used out of context like the shtreimel ads with stuff like "avadim hayinu" but now the shtreimils are lightweight so things are great.

What's missing is some wholesomeness, perspective, and joy IMO.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:07 am
I enjoy the magazines but the lifestyle that they promote is not inspiring. I agree that more and more people are looking for that life and have trouble being satisfied with less.
Back to top

Rubber Ducky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:14 am
Quote:
The frum magazines are serving the same role for an increasingly affluent frum audience. What kinds of foods are "in" for Shabbos and holidays? How do with-it hostesses set the table?

I advertise my day planner, The Balabusta's Daily Organizer, in Mishpacha. I agree that the magazines promote a lifestyle that gives most of us an opportunity to practice observing the 10th commandment (Thou shalt not covet...)

Advertising exists in a symbiotic balance with publications. Magazines need the advertisers to cover their costs and make a profit. Advertisers need magazines to reach consumers. They both benefit by promoting a consumer-driven economy.

For sure I hope the Balabusta is the must-have planner for the aspiring Jewish woman, whether affluent or not! But it's not a luxury item; maybe I should triple the price to give it more cachet...
Back to top

seeker




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:31 am
I'm kind of stuck in the middle here because I don't like the lifestyle issues you're all talking about, but I do love to read and I do find the the magazines I choose provide an overall healthy supply of reading. I find much of the content to be kosher, entertaining, and informative/interesting. I'm a critical reader so I don't take anyone's "say-so" about what I should think or care about, and while the "tablescapes" are sometimes interesting enough to make me stop and look I usually pass right over them, but I'm too honest to say I'm never going to be affected by the exposure to, shall we say, diverse lifestyles (haha I just realized how that would sound I'm any other context!) I live in a very down-to-earth community and would probably be unaware of many trends if not for magazines and good ol imamother.

I admire those who have are forward-thinking enough to stay off this wagon in the first place. Personally I'm in it anyway and enjoying it so I just take it with a grain of salt and try to keep my eyes sharp.
Back to top

amother




Gray


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 1:32 am
crust wrote:
Talking about shidduchim I always wonder.

How will people know if I do or don't have these mags or that we do XYZ because I gave a lot of thought to it and decided that its not according to my hashkafa etc.?

It's not like I'm outspoken about things. I just go about my merry way.
How would someone even know? Ykwim?

Dont worry, it will be quite apparent to potential shidduchim. Those "in the know" will self select out of the pool for those of us who are not. When your kids will be dating, they will be presenting with your value system (unless they disagree with it). Its not about the magazines. I believe quietly living your value system is the best insurance in shidduchim, next to prayer.
Back to top

Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 6:29 am
One reason I really dislike most of these magazines, the heavy emphasis on gashmius in many advertisements and articles. Its not just a recipe page, its artistic photos, expensive ingredients, etc. Not that I think there is anything wrong with advertising a brand of yogurt, clothing, or a frum hotel program. Something about the way some of these advertisements are crafted and worded are just not right.

I live out of town with not too many frum people so I am kind of insulated from all this stuff. I remember when I made my first simcha, and I hadn't planned centrepeices. (I catered the whole thing myself, understandably some details were less important to me). Some of my relatives were horrified. And these aren't wealthy people. I don't remember people caring about this type of thing 30 years ago so I am attributing a lot of it to magazines, although instagram, pinterest etc no doubt also play their part.

Having said that, my guilty pleasure is going to pesach hotel websites and browsing. No way I am ever going to one of these but I love looking at them, in between pesach cleaning and planning menus for my dozens of guests.
Back to top

amother




Orchid


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:06 am
Magazines like that are 99% fluff. Made up of no real substance. What an insult to the intelligence of the frum world that it’s gotten so big.
Back to top

Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:12 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
That's what is so warped. The lifestyle being promoted is immodest in the extreme, but the magazines act as if the problem is women. Interview some intelligent women about issues of substance, and show their pictures.


This this this!!!!
Back to top

allthingsblue




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:33 am
Ectomorph, why do you think Mishpacha readers are sheep who don't think for themselves?
I read the interesting, informative articles and completely disregard the ads for Swiss vacations $4000 wigs and designer clothing. Just like I don't covet a Tiffany ring or Chanel jacket after I read The NY Times.

Edited to add that I do think the ads are problematic and not consistent with Torah lifestyle but that's in every magazine unfortunately. However, are not a communist society, the magazines can do what the want (which is why I don't really care if there are no pictures of women and although I hate the heavily made-up girls in ads, I don't boycott the magazine).
Back to top
1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 5 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Frum community in Durham, NC? 2 Tue, Aug 13 2019, 9:42 am View last post
Is Touro shul in RI a frum minian shabbes?
by amother
6 Sun, Aug 11 2019, 9:16 am View last post
In frum schools, what exactly is meant by "kriah"? 29 Fri, Aug 09 2019, 5:04 pm View last post
by keym
Frum (dati leumi) Communities- Info on Modiin
by Shargal
7 Thu, Aug 08 2019, 4:25 am View last post
Frum women in Israel forced to take off their head coverings 38 Wed, Aug 07 2019, 5:53 am View last post

Jump to: